That's a huge budget for osmeone who doesn't know anything much..

Is your plan to actually recoup the investment by being a professional photographer?.

I fail to see the part about experience, talent, etc..

The cameras you list are all discontinued models..

Is there a reason for this?.

You make reference to the Nikons not being full frame..

Well, yes they are. As far a Nikon is concerend, that's the frame size for digital cameras they make for professional photography. It's just a size that is different from what Canon calls full frame, referring to a completely different technology film..

Canpon's msll frame is full size, too, except when compared to something else. But Canon's so-called full frame is small compared to a 645 negative, and tiny compared to to 6x9..

You don't say what kind of music, and you don't say what other pictures you might want to take, and, if you pull off this as a professional, what clients might actually want. Portraits of musicians before a concert, to use as publicity in the local newspapers in order to goose ticket sales?.

Bckstage shots to fill out the liner notes for an in-concert CD?.

Or just on-sage performance shots?.

Looking at the message, it seems price-driven..

Why not buy yourself a nice basic d-SLR camera with a kit lens, and learn the basics?.

You say you don't need a zoom because you can get close to the stage. Oh? And when you are close to the stage, what's the plan? Take pictures of the guitar player by herself? Or do you want two people in a photo? Three? Four?.

Is the plan to try to change lenses in the dark so that you can frame one person sometimes, switch lenses for two people, switch again for four people?.

A zoom lens is really very handy when standing in one spot in a lot of locations the organizers don't like people moving around between performer and audience and tryng to photograph differnt amounts of the scene, and when people in the scene are moving closer to you and farther away..

With a choir, the right zoom lets you get the shole choir in one shot, and frame primarily to soloist for another..

In the real world, a Nikon d80 and a couple of lenses, or a Canon 400D and a couple of lenses, will be just fine for a beginner..

Spend some more money on lights and a good spotmeter..

After a while, you can add a second, expensive, body if you want..

For a wide variety of music photographs:.

Canon 400DSigma 18-50mm f2.8 lensSigma 50-150mm f2.8 lensCanon 580EX flashCanon 430EX flash.

CAse that allows everything to be physically attached to you at all times; No bag on the floor behind you..

Nikon D80.Same lensesTwo Nikon flash guns.

If you want Canon lenses, the 17-55 f2.8 and the 70-200 f2.8 IS are good choices. The IS is handy for times when the musicians are still, as far as their feet are concerned although you might get (quite interesting) blurs from strumming fingers and beating drum sticks and sliding trombones..

Want to spend a lot? Nikon D200 is the wise choice, but you might as wel go for the D2Xs. For Canon, the EOS 1D Mark 3 is a noticable improvement over the earlier models, and allows lots more money to be spent on wireless trickery, too..

As for the so called full frame the disadvantage is that you lose the benefit of extra telephotoness for no increase in lens cast. The framing of a 70-200 at 200mm on a 400D is the same as the framing of a 300mm lens on a 5D, for a lot less money if you want f2.8. (in the USA, $1700 cf $3800)..

As for getting advice from either friends or, in this case, strangers.. look at the advice carefully and try to figure out if the advice-givers have a clue what they are talking about..

Here, it's a gamble, but with your friends, you can probe a big and try to fiogure out why they suggest a sports photographer's camera for a music photographer..

And, regardless of body, the Canon and Nikon f1.8 50mm lenses are a good investment, and so is the GAry Fong Lightsphere, high as the price my seem for some moulded plastic..

Finally don't trust anyone who tells you wanything in the music buisiness. You may, in fact, being told the truth, and you may, in fact, not find the circumstances changed by the time some show arrives, but, almost always, the light will be dimmer than they told you, and the shooting position will be fasrther away, and the length of time you can shoot will be shorter, and the venue will be hotter or colder, and the time with the musicians beforehand will be less than you were told, and afterwards the rooms will be too small and youwont' get clear shooting space, and there will be other photographers there even though you were given an exclusive, and the cheque will be a lot later than they told you, assuming it arrives at all so get paid up front, at least for your anticipated expenses..

Other than that... good luck..

BAK..

Keshya wrote:.

Hello,I'm new to the forums, and I'd be very grateful if you could help memake a decision. I'm a semi professional photographer, and I've onlyrecently started shooting at concerts. The camera I'm currently usingis limited to ISO 400, and therefore not suitable at all for music orother low-light photography. I've looked into several digital SLR'snow, and I'm not sure what might be the best basic equipment to startoff with. My budget is 5000 euros. I need a body, fast lenses, andprobably a zoom, even though the latter can wait for a bit longer, asI'm planning to start off in small venues where I'll be able to beright at the stage, or at least no farther than 5m from it..

A friend of mine recommended I get a Nikon D2X, or D2HS, rather thanan EOS 1D Mk II that I was initially looking into. I'm not so sureabout the Nikon D2X, since that one has 1.5x crop, rather than a fullframe. Besides, the price for the body alone is pretty steep, andsince I need lenses, too, I'd rather spend a little less on the bodyand get good, fast primes, instead..

Any recommendations on which professional DSLR to get, and whatprimes to buy for starters? I'll expand my equipment as I get moreexperienced, but right now I'm looking for advice on what to get toput together a decent starter's kit..

Thank you very much in advance!!!.

HiYou have a large Budget so cameras you may want to consider areCanon 5dCanon 30dFuji S5.

Having said that basiclly to start you just want a camera that is good in low light....that means the above plus any 6mp Sony chip camera and any 6 or 8mp Canon...there are others that would be fine I am sure..

As for lenses Many people go with a Tamron 28-75 2.8 plus a fast 50 and a 70-200 2.8 Other fast primes come in handy and a wide angle zoom maybe..

There are a LOT of people doing this now with an exponential increase every year...most who do it for free. To make serious money you have to be very good AND have good connections. Most start of shooting local bands in local pubs and clubs shooting for street press and websites...local newspapers that sort of thing. Personally I do it as a hobby and enjoy getting in for free and getting the best "seat" in the house etc. I get offered money from time to time but it's only a hobby for me so I get by with Pentax 6mp cameras...great in low light. I note you already are semi-pro so I suggest you start with a Canon 30d and a couple of L lenses...that way you can get the more proffessional Canon gear later (if ever)..

The Inches.

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Travis Sinclair.

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Faker.

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Neil.

Link back to flickrhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/26884588@N00/..

You haven't told us what the end use for the photographs is..

Web?Small prints?Large prints?Posters?Billboards?..

Spend your money where it counts - fast (prime/IS zoom) lenses. Get the 400D (XTi) or 30D (or one of each), and the 17-55 f/2.8 IS for the times you need to think on your feet about framing and can zoom. Get the 50mm f/1.2L for the times when stunning sharp close up images are necessary. The 70-200 f/2.8L IS is another option for when you have some distance. I find the 85mm f/1.2L (and mk II) to be a little too slow/hard to focus with the fly-by-wire AF system. Perhaps the 1D III's live view mode fixes that specific scenario..

The original 1Ds can be found used on the buy/sell forum of FredMiranda for prices around $2000 these days. With that camera, a 24-105mm f/4 IS or a 24-70 f/2.8 would be your zoom lens, and you might get the 85mm f/1.2II for your portrait prime. A 70-200 f/2.8 IS is a very reasonable choice as well for that camera. The 5D is a little smaller, lighter, and newer than the 1Ds, but the 45 point AF system of the 1D series is better..

Also, any of the E-TTL flashes like the 420, 430, 550, or 580EX series speedlites would be good for if/when you can use flash. You'd probably need additional attachments to adjust the light..

-Mike.

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Http://demosaic.blogspot.com..

BAK wrote:.

That's a huge budget for osmeone who doesn't know anything much..

Is your plan to actually recoup the investment by being aprofessional photographer?.

I've been shooting using an SLR camera and film for about 15 years, but not professionally. Sometimes I get paid, but most of the time, I do it just for the fun of it, and to gain more experience. I bought my first DSLR about two years ago, but I was on a tight budget, and I'm very dissatisfied with the camera's limitations. I've recently been offered the opportunity to shoot bands in a local club, so I want to get something decent this time. Since the money I have now are my savings, I want to get the best camera and lenses I can afford with that budget, because I won't be able to afford a second camera in a while. I work for a publishing company, and I asked some of our photographers for advice.



I hope, that answers your questions..

Well, yes they are. As far a Nikon is concerend, that's the framesize for digital cameras they make for professional photography. It'sjust a size that is different from what Canon calls full frame,referring to a completely different technology film..

Canpon's msll frame is full size, too, except when compared tosomething else. But Canon's so-called full frame is small compared toa 645 negative, and tiny compared to to 6x9..

You don't say what kind of music, and you don't say what otherpictures you might want to take, and, if you pull off this as aprofessional, what clients might actually want. Portraits ofmusicians before a concert, to use as publicity in the localnewspapers in order to goose ticket sales?.

Performance shots mostly, for a local music magazine. I also do travel photography at times; landscapes and people. I like to portray people in daily life situations..

You say you don't need a zoom because you can get close to the stage.Oh? And when you are close to the stage, what's the plan? Takepictures of the guitar player by herself? Or do you want two peoplein a photo? Three? Four?.

I'm sorry about the misunderstanding. I have always worked with a zoom, and of course I need and want one. The question was, whether or not to invest in a set of fast lenses first, since I know I can get close to the stage, or start off with a good zoom. Because depending on how much I'll have to spend on the camera body, I doubt I'll be able to purchase everything at once..

In the real world, a Nikon d80 and a couple of lenses, or a Canon400D and a couple of lenses, will be just fine for a beginner..

Spend some more money on lights and a good spotmeter..

After a while, you can add a second, expensive, body if you want..

I would like to do that, but I don't have the money for both, which is why I would rather invest in a more professional body right away. Hence, the price-driven questions. .

For a wide variety of music photographs:.

Canon 400DSigma 18-50mm f2.8 lensSigma 50-150mm f2.8 lensCanon 580EX flashCanon 430EX flash.

CAse that allows everything to be physically attached to you at alltimes; No bag on the floor behind you..

Nikon D80.Same lensesTwo Nikon flash guns.

If you want Canon lenses, the 17-55 f2.8 and the 70-200 f2.8 IS aregood choices. The IS is handy for times when the musicians are still,as far as their feet are concerned although you might get (quiteinteresting) blurs from strumming fingers and beating drum sticks andsliding trombones..

Want to spend a lot? Nikon D200 is the wise choice, but you mightas wel go for the D2Xs. For Canon, the EOS 1D Mark 3 is a noticableimprovement over the earlier models, and allows lots more money to bespent on wireless trickery, too..

As for the so called full frame the disadvantage is that you losethe benefit of extra telephotoness for no increase in lens cast. Theframing of a 70-200 at 200mm on a 400D is the same as the framing ofa 300mm lens on a 5D, for a lot less money if you want f2.8. (in theUSA, $1700 cf $3800)..

As for getting advice from either friends or, in this case,strangers.. look at the advice carefully and try to figure out if theadvice-givers have a clue what they are talking about..

Here, it's a gamble, but with your friends, you can probe a big andtry to fiogure out why they suggest a sports photographer's camerafor a music photographer..

And, regardless of body, the Canon and Nikon f1.8 50mm lenses are agood investment, and so is the GAry Fong Lightsphere, high as theprice my seem for some moulded plastic..

Finally don't trust anyone who tells you wanything in the musicbuisiness. You may, in fact, being told the truth, and you may, infact, not find the circumstances changed by the time some showarrives, but, almost always, the light will be dimmer than they toldyou, and the shooting position will be fasrther away, and the lengthof time you can shoot will be shorter, and the venue will be hotteror colder, and the time with the musicians beforehand will be lessthan you were told, and afterwards the rooms will be too small andyouwont' get clear shooting space, and there will be otherphotographers there even though you were given an exclusive, and thecheque will be a lot later than they told you, assuming it arrives atall so get paid up front, at least for your anticipated expenses..

Other than that... good luck..

That helps a lot. Thank you very much!..

Neil holmes wrote:.

HiYou have a large Budget so cameras you may want to consider areCanon 5dCanon 30dFuji S5.

Having said that basiclly to start you just want a camera that isgood in low light....that means the above plus any 6mp Sony chipcamera and any 6 or 8mp Canon...there are others that would be fine Iam sure..

As for lenses Many people go with a Tamron 28-75 2.8 plus a fast 50and a 70-200 2.8 Other fast primes come in handy and a wide anglezoom maybe..

I have heard of Tamron lenses. I heard they're less expensive, but just as good as the original Canon or Nikon lenses. Do they fit on any Canon or Nikon body?.

There are a LOT of people doing this now with an exponential increaseevery year...most who do it for free. To make serious money youhave to be very good AND have good connections. Most start ofshooting local bands in local pubs and clubs shooting for streetpress and websites...local newspapers that sort of thing..

That's what I'm planning to do. .

Personally I do it as a hobby and enjoy getting in for free andgetting the best "seat" in the house etc. I get offered money fromtime to time but it's only a hobby for me so I get by with Pentax 6mpcameras...great in low light. I note you already are semi-pro so Isuggest you start with a Canon 30d and a couple of L lenses...thatway you can get the more proffessional Canon gear later (if ever)..

Thank you!..

Snycer wrote:.

You haven't told us what the end use for the photographs is..

Web?Small prints?Large prints?Posters?Billboards?.

Web, for my own portfolio. Large prints. Prints for magazine articles...

Keshya wrote:.

Neil holmes wrote:.

As for lenses Many people go with a Tamron 28-75 2.8 plus a fast 50and a 70-200 2.8 Other fast primes come in handy and a wide anglezoom maybe..

I have heard of Tamron lenses. I heard they're less expensive, butjust as good as the original Canon or Nikon lenses. Do they fit onany Canon or Nikon body?.

Yes, the current Tamrons will fit any Canon or Nikon DSLR. The Canon AF lenses will not fit the older FD mount Canon bodies without an adapter of some sort....Nikon may fit some of the older bodies but i'm not real familiar with the Nikon system..

As to whether they are just as good as the original OEM lenses, that is subjective. I have the Tamron 28-75/2.8 and find it to be an outstanding lens at a significant savings over the comparable Pentax 28-70/2.8 (about 1/3 the price). Probably the best ki for you would be a pair of constant f/2.8 zooms in the 28-70mm and 70-200mm range along with a fast prime.....for a DSLR with a 1.5 crop factor, an 18-50/2.8 and 50-135/2.8 along with the Sigma 31/1.8 would be ideal and probably cover 90+% of all your needs..

For a 35mm equivalent this would a 28-70/2.8, a 70-200/2.8 and a 50/1.4..

Good luck!.

JohnPentax *ist-D, K100D, Fuji F20/31fd, Oly Stylushttp://www.pbase.com/jglover..

Seems like you've got some good advices already. I'm lucky to know the owner of a performing theater and get to shoot all shows as I wish, I then use that connection to extend to other venues. Here are my equipment:.

- Canon 20D, ready to buy a 1DM3 any time; Like 20D's ISO1600 very much w/ normal large jpg, even more with 1DM3's ISO6400.- 24-70mm f/2.8 fast lense for low light- 70-200mm f/2.8 fast lense for low light, frequently combined with 1.4x- Battery grip for extended shooting, last a whole day for festival- 2 2GB and 1 4GB CF cards;- monopod, learn how to exchange lenses in total darkness without other's help,- 580EX flash- pouch for accessaries and extra parts- ear plugs so you can stand in front of the speakers- business cards to hand out to potential customers.

Have fun capture those emotions..

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- Pro freelancer taking assignments in sports, concert and any events, especially fun assignments.

- Daughter asked Mom: 'Is dad a full time photographer now? Does he still have his old job?'http://SoCalConcerts.PhotoReflect.com/http://AndreTorng.PhotoReflect.com/..

I'm a Nikon guy, but if you're starting from scratch and those are your objectives, I'd get a Canon EOS 1D Mk II..

As far a lenses go, that depends on the venue. Figure out how far away you'll be. Stand that far away in the camera store and try various lenses, seeing how they fill the frame...

If you're going to get close you want something fast and widewhich doesn't exist for crop bodies. While the original 1ds is a nice camera, it's high ISO isn't nearly as good as the 5d..

I shoot a 1dsII, mostly with a 24/1.4, as well as a 50/1.4, 135/2 and Leica 19/2.8. I've shot with a rented 5d when my camera was being repaired, and the image quality at extreme ISOs is at least as good as my 1dsII. The only things keeping me from trading down are buffer size, burst speed, and (mostly) the 1dsII's ability to withstand the abuse it gets shooting punk shows. (I've had a low-flying stage diver slam the LCD into my nose hard enough to make it bleed).

F2.8 zooms are O.K. in large, well-lit venues, but they pretty much suck for small clubs. Anything slower is a paperweight..

I'd recommend starting with a 5d, a 24/1.4 and a 50/1.4. Shooting a few shows with that will point you towards what to do with the rest of your moneya 24-70? a flash? a 135/2.0? a 16-35? A few shows of experience will be a MUCH better guide to what fits your style than anything anyone says here..

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Mike McGrann of CH3.

Roger Kruegerhttp://www.punktures.com..

Great shots. How did you get good light from the Galaxy? I had to PP every one of them, so dark. Seems like you slowed down 4Q last year. Why?.

Have fun!.

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- Pro freelancer taking assignments in sports, concert and any events, especially fun assignments.

- Daughter asked Mom: 'Is dad a full time photographer now? Does he still have his old job?'http://SoCalConcerts.PhotoReflect.com/http://AndreTorng.PhotoReflect.com/..

Great shot. CH3 peaked, I think, back when the amazing Jay Lansford was in the band...

AndreTorng wrote:.

Great shots. How did you get good light from the Galaxy?.

Seems to me the Galaxy is usually decently lit, although I have suffered through a couple of really dark sets. It's not nearly as interestingly (or brightly) lit as, say, the Vault or HOB, but it's also not changing every 3 seconds. And it's a heck of a lot better than the small clubs I've shot at..

I had toPP every one of them, so dark..

These are seriously PP'd too. I intentionally shoot dark to get better shutter speeds and to curb blowouts..

Seems like you slowed down 4Q lastyear. Why?.

I've only slowed down shooting a little bit, but I seem to both have less time to do PP and I'm getting more anal about getting it dead right, so I'm falling further and further behind on getting the whole show PP'd to post on my site (vs. just doing a couple of winners for the band). I've got 7 shows, about 20 sets, sitting in queue for PP right now.

I'm trying to edit tighter, but it's like killing kittens. I'm also making the hard choice to not always bother with openersI still shoot them for warm upbut if they haven't done anything special they might never get processed...

Roger Krueger wrote:.

AndreTorng wrote:.

Great shots. How did you get good light from the Galaxy?.

Seems to me the Galaxy is usually decently lit, although I havesuffered through a couple of really dark sets..

Of course, using 1.4 primes vs. 2.8 zooms and a 1dsII vs. a 20d I've got at least 3 stops on you, so decent light for me may well not be decent light for you. 3 stops is the difference between a very usable 1/125 shutter speed vs. a not-a-prayer 1/15...

Care to list the lenses you use?.

- Pro freelancer taking assignments in sports, concert and any events, especially fun assignments.

- Daughter asked Mom: 'Is dad a full time photographer now? Does he still have his old job?'http://SoCalConcerts.PhotoReflect.com/http://AndreTorng.PhotoReflect.com/..

BTW, I usually use Tv 1/200 if the spot light is on. If not, I drop down to 1/80 or even 1/60 and will definitely use that monopod. Especially when I zoom in with 200+1.4..

- Pro freelancer taking assignments in sports, concert and any events, especially fun assignments.

- Daughter asked Mom: 'Is dad a full time photographer now? Does he still have his old job?'http://SoCalConcerts.PhotoReflect.com/http://AndreTorng.PhotoReflect.com/..

AndreTorng wrote:.

Care to list the lenses you use?.

Actually I already did .

In order of concert usage: 24/1/4, 50/1.4, 135/2, Leica 19/2.8, very infrequently my 200/2.8..

The first four I can get away with baggy cargo shorts, if I bring the 200 I need the waist bag, and I really don't like wearing it if I'll be shooting from anywhere but a protected pit and/or a sedate balcony..

I used to use the waist bag more often, but I had a close callI'd debated bringing it into a Cadillac Tramps show, decided against it. The singer, Gabby, suddenly wants me to shoot the encore back in the pit. So he reaches out a hand to me. I think he's just going to shake hands, instead he grabs my wrist and pulls. When my feet come off the ground the guy behind grabs them and I go over the barricade. Security catches my shoulders at their waist level, but the guy with my legs hangs on and lifts them as high as he can.



If I'd been working from the waist bag I'd have had all the lenses fall out and bounce off concrete. Decent chance they'd have landed on the crowd side of the barricade which would've been even worse. But the shorts kept everything in place, all I ended up with was a small divot in the prism where it hit the barricade as I was flailing about...