TigerLord wrote:all..

He says :.

'If you're shooting in an autoexposure, program, aperture-priority orshutter-priority mode, you must take one extra-step before puttingthe gray card away" [...] "Let's say the meter indicated f/16 at1/100 sec. for bright snow scene in front of you. Then look at thescene in one of these mode. Chances are that in aperture-prioritymode, the meter reads f/16 at 1/200 sec.; and in shutter-prioritymode, the meter reads f/22 at 1/100. In either case, the meter is now"off" one stop from the correct meter reading from the gray card.".

And this is what I don't get:"You need to recover that one stop by using your autoexposureoverrides"..

Then he explains what it does. But if I understood it right, using anaperture priority mode will let you set the aperture you want (if youneed a specific depth of field) and the camera will select theshutter speed for you, and in shutter-priority, you can set theshutter speed you want (say if you want to imply motion or freezeaction) and the aperture will be chosen automatically. I supposeautoexposure does it all for you and you simply point and shoot?.

Aside from not knowing what program mode is, why can't I simply usesay aperture-priority mode, meter the gray card, use the exposurelock button, then shoot the scene ? Why use the what seem to be verycomplicated override system?.

The author of the book seems to use manual mode A LOT, but is itrealistic at all ? Most shots I see have been done using eitheraperture- or shutter-priority mode (rarely autoexposure though)..

I'd like to know because it's been bugging me for a long time !.

I'm still not completely sure what he's saying but it probably works. Your method of locking the gray card reading is fine and much more intuitive. What I do is shoot in manual and set the exposure to the gray card; that's even less confusing to me because I don't have to find the exposure lock button..

I shoot aperture priority when I let the camera set the exposure and manual when I want to control the exposure..

Leonard Migliore..

He talks about overrides after +2,+1,0.-1,-2 or 2X,1X,0,1/2X and 1/4X..

It's all Chinese to me...

+2, +1, 0, -1, -2 does sound like exposure compensation. Though (as far as I know) it is not available in manual mode....

I shoot mostly in apperture priority. If the flash is not used it is quite simple then. If you have live histogram that is. First you compose your picture then look at the histogram. You want the "bulge" on it to be as much as possible to the left without bumping against the left limit. THAT'S WHERE you need exposure compensation.

If the "bulge" is on the right side of the histogram turn exposure compensation to the positie side..

With the flash it may be more complicated and you would need to play with the flash output level for several shots to get the exposure right.Happy shooting.Leon K...

Lkn wrote:THAT'S WHERE you need exposure compensation. If the"bulge" on the histogram is too far to the left bring the exposurecompensation down into the negative side. If the "bulge" is on theright side of the histogram turn exposure compensation to the positieside..

Hi Leon,I believe you have this backwards....

If the "bulge" is on the right side of the histogram it is overexposed and you would want to dial in negative exposure compensation....

Sound better?.

Bob.

I was sad because I had no shoes untill I met a man who had no feet. So I said, 'Hey, got any shoes you're not using?' - Steven Wright.

Http://www.pbase.com/mofongo..

Lkn wrote:.

+2, +1, 0, -1, -2 does sound like exposure compensation. Though (asfar as I know) it is not available in manual mode....

The reason it's not available in manual mode is because in manual you would simply, open up or stop down the aperture to force the camera into a differnt exposure - thus the name manual..

In aperture and/or shutter priority mode the camera always tries to set the correct exposure. Sometimes however the "correct" exposure however, does not reflect reality though. The light meter in your camera is calibrated to meter any given scene as midtones - 18% grey. Now if you are trying to photgraph snow, your camera (meter) will still think the snow is midtones, hence "grey" - even though we see it as white. So, in Av or Tv mode your camera will choose the corresponding aperture or shutter speed setting so the picture will be exposed as midtones. To compensate for this effect, you need to trick (force) your camera into exposing longer than it thinks would be necessary.



(as a side note, for completeness. Even though an 18% grey card is often used to meter the light, this is not entirely correct. Most camera meters are calibrated to see 12% grey and not 18%. So even when using a grey card exposure should be corrected by about 1/2 stop.).

Hope this helpsbecksi.

I shoot mostly in apperture priority. If the flash is not used it isquite simple then. If you have live histogram that is. First youcompose your picture then look at the histogram. You want the "bulge"on it to be as much as possible to the left without bumping againstthe left limit. THAT'S WHERE you need exposure compensation.

If the "bulge" is on theright side of the histogram turn exposure compensation to the positieside.With the flash it may be more complicated and you would need to playwith the flash output level for several shots to get the exposureright.Happy shooting.Leon K...

TigerLord wrote:.

I was just reading 'Understand Exposure' in bed before going to sleepfor the 8th time I believe when I remembered I wanted to come hereand ask a question. The last 7 times I told myself I'd do it the nextmorning but since I always forgot, I got out of bed A.S.A.P..

On page 120 he talks about how to meter very bright or light scenes,such as a black cat on a white wall..

He says :.

'If you're shooting in an autoexposure, program, aperture-priority orshutter-priority mode, you must take one extra-step before puttingthe gray card away" [...] "Let's say the meter indicated f/16 at1/100 sec. for bright snow scene in front of you. Then look at thescene in one of these mode. Chances are that in aperture-prioritymode, the meter reads f/16 at 1/200 sec.; and in shutter-prioritymode, the meter reads f/22 at 1/100. In either case, the meter is now"off" one stop from the correct meter reading from the gray card.".

And this is what I don't get:"You need to recover that one stop by using your autoexposureoverrides"..

Then he explains what it does. But if I understood it right, using anaperture priority mode will let you set the aperture you want (if youneed a specific depth of field) and the camera will select theshutter speed for you, and in shutter-priority, you can set theshutter speed you want (say if you want to imply motion or freezeaction) and the aperture will be chosen automatically. I supposeautoexposure does it all for you and you simply point and shoot?.

What do you mean by "autoexposure"? Usually there are two types of "autoexposure" modes on DLSRs. One "full auto mode" and Program (P) mode..

In both setting the camera will choose the settings, with the minor difference that Programm mode will allow you to select certain features (ISO, etc ...) and "full auto" is very restrictive..

Using either mode is always a compromise, because the camera does not know what you are shooting respectively whether the image you are composing needs to freeze action or a high DOF. So it will use an aperture and shutter speed that somewhat tries to give justice to both - with often questionable results..

Aside from not knowing what program mode is, why can't I simply usesay aperture-priority mode, meter the gray card, use the exposurelock button, then shoot the scene ? .

"Many ways lead to Rome", hence you could or can also meter the grey card, use AE lock and shoot the scene. I am not sure why the author is recommending this routine. Eventually, it's an exercise to explain the effects of the exposure compensation feature, OR it's because he wants to set you aware of the fallibility of your in-camera light meter, OR simply because he thinks you might take several shots of the same subject at different angles, distances ... etc. and it might just be easier to adjust a feature that remains it's setting until you change it back, vs. keeping the AE lock button pushed for an extended period of time..

Why use the what seem to be verycomplicated override system?.

The author of the book seems to use manual mode A LOT, but is itrealistic at all ? Most shots I see have been done using eitheraperture- or shutter-priority mode (rarely autoexposure though)..

Very common to use Av or Tv. Don't feel bad if you don't use full manual mode. There is a variety of reasons why people prefer manual over Av/Tv mode. It can be as simple of an explanation as that they learned it this way and never felt they needed to use the other modes, but mostly it gives you more control and freedom in your creativityAnd with a little experience and practice you can fairly easily use manual as well. (but it's not entirely necessary to shot better pictures).

I'd like to know because it's been bugging me for a long time !.

I hope I could help stop the bugging cheers,becksi..

TigerLord wrote:.

And this is what I don't get:"You need to recover that one stop by using your autoexposureoverrides"..

Sounds like the author of the book is assuming that you are NOT using the auto-exposure lock. So, as soon as you point the camera at the real subject, the camera will choose an incorrect exposure again..

I suppose autoexposure does it all for you and you simply point and shoot?.

I don't think he means AUTO mode. Auto-exposure refers to automatic control of exposure in ANY camera mode where the camera tries to have the last word on the total (time*light). That includes Aperture-priority (A, Av), Shutter-priority (S, Tv), Program, and full AUTO..

Usually there's a way to tweak this "last word" short of going into Manual mode an exposure override control that you can use to tell the camera that a shot needs one or two stops more (or less) light than the camera think it does. Each stop is a doubling or halving of light..

If you were in Manual mode, you'd just lower the shutter speed or open up the lens aperture, and ignore the camera telling you that you got it wrong....

Aside from not knowing what program mode is, why can't I simply usesay aperture-priority mode, meter the gray card, use the exposurelock button, then shoot the scene ? Why use the what seem to be verycomplicated override system?.

Seems like a good plan...

Thank you very much all of you, it now makes a lot of sense to me..

I think the reason he uses manual mode a lot is because once you set the aperture and shutter no matter where you point the camera nothing will change so even though the viewfinder will say it's wrong you know it's not ... I guess using manual gives you a lot of flexibility when shooting landscape with a tripod and you have time, but shooting pets or people in a birthday party and you want to capture the moment, manual seems way too slow..

Thank you VERY much for the explanations ..

Well, EV compensation will override the "A" setting and the "S" setting and the "P" setting for that matter. Personally, I look at the scene and think something like "about 1 or 1 stops will do the trick" and just count the clicks from so-called correct exposure..

Trouble is neither he nor we know your camera..

Regards, David..

That's true for the cameras that don't have average metering (just spot metering). If you have a camera with true spot metering you can meter the brightest spot you want to have detail and then apply +2 EV exposure compensation. I would also bracket +/- 1/3EV (if possible) and the photo will be OK..

With average metering you have less chance to screw the exposure than with the spot meters of old days. But if your entire frame is whitish then you have to apply +1 EV exposure compensation and if it's blackish you apply - 1 EV exposure compensation. For snow the exposure compensation should be +2.5 EV so use manual mode if the camera has just 2 stops of exposure compensation.VictorBucuresti, Romaniahttp://s106.photobucket.com/albums/m268/victor_petcu/..

You are not the first person to be confused by that book..

In regard to >Aside from not knowing what program mode is, <.

Program mode is the P on the dial on top of your K10D. The microchip inside the camera learns what lens you have on, what focal length you have it set to, how bright the meter thinks the subject area is, and then the microship picks a shutter speed and aperture to give you proper exposure..

If you have a long lens on, it will pick a quicker shutter speed, to combat camera shake. For a shorter lens, longer shutter speed so there can be a smaller aperture, for great sharpness..

As the light changes, the chip changes the settings in a sort of stair-step process. Dependng on the camera, half a shutter speed change, then half an aperture change and then another shutter speed change, and so on. (See your message about apertures for more on this..

In regard to >,,,why can't I simply use say aperture-priority mode, meter the gray card, use the exposure lock button, then shoot the scene ? Why use the what seem to be very complicated override system?<.

If you do it your way, you need to hold in the exposure lock button for every shot you take. With some cameras you can do this and with others you need to re-set the exposure lock for every shot..

With his methods, unless circumstances change considerably, you can take shot after shot after shot, and they will all be right..

MANUAL? If you set the camera properly in Manual, allowing for the weirdness of trying to shoot very bright or very dark things, you could skip trying to find the exposure compensation settings, and there's less chance you'd leave the camera in the wrong settings when taking your next picture..

CONFUSION- Auto means different things to different people. Beginners think it meansthe (usually green) really basic do-everything for you setting..

More experienced photographers thisnk autoexposure is any system where the camera picks the exposure Tv means the camera decides aperture for you, Av means camera decides shutter speed for you. P means camera decides both..

With advanced digital cameras, you can do lots of other adjusts with P, Av, Tv, while usually in the green dot/box setting, you can't do much..

BAK..

BAK wrote:.

With advanced digital cameras, you can do lots of other adjusts withP, Av, Tv, while usually in the green dot/box setting, you can't domuch..

One that some cameras throw in is ISO adjustment, where the camera changes ISO as you adjust something else, or vice versa...

TigerLord wrote:.

Why can't I simply usesay aperture-priority mode, meter the gray card, use the exposurelock button, then shoot the scene ? .

There is no reason why you cant simply do as you described..

Why use the what seem to be very complicated override system?.

Because it's not a complicated system. Its very easy to use and is useful if you dont carry a gray card around with you..

It sounds like the author had just finished describing how to set your exposure level using a gray card when the camera is set to Manual mode. The paragraph you quoted is describing an additional step if you are NOT in Manual mode..

Whats happening is that the cameras meter is being fooled by the extremes of the scene (black cat / white snow.) Using the gray card allows you to meter properly, but once the gray card is gone the meter is confused again. Since the camera is in one of it's auto modes, it's settings are changed once the gray card is gone. As you said, you can simply use exposure lock after metering the gray card and then take your shot..

However, it is a good idea to become familiar with the exposure compensation controls. There are times when you wont have a gray card with you, or where the use of a gray card wont be practical or possible. At these times, if you want to use an auto mode then your only option is to use exposure compensation, along with the histogram. Understanding what the histogram is telling you is crucial to your ability to set exposure levels quickly and accurately..

I generally use Program mode and check the histogram after taking an image. If the scene was overexposed Ill use the exposure compensation to reduce exposure on the next image. This allows me to adjust metering for difficult scenes while still giving me freedom from having to set the shutter and aperture manually. With experience youll learn when you need compensation and will apply it before taking your first shot. At that point youll be able to take well-exposed images quickly and the first time, whereas you might have missed the shot if you were messing with manual settings or a gray card...