I would suggest the system that colleges use to take images used for photo ID shots with a medium priced "point and shoot" to go with it. I am sure that someone here can fill you in on more about the exact system used. I think the colleges and schools use the cameras with the resolution turned way down. You would probably want a medium resolution camera, which means a budget of about $150-200. You would use an existing computer and data base and plug the camera with a USB cable..

I would think in this day and age, police departments would want to use a system that would allow them to share images with other agancies to verify that they do or don't have a person wanted for something more serious.Chris, Broussard, LA..

Having taken a few shots of prisoners (7.5 years in the jail before moving to the lab) I've seen the move from 70mm film to digital. It hasn't always been pretty, but we have it under control now..

Webcams suck. That's pretty much all there is to it. You don't need anything fancy, the current mug camera is a Kodak 4mp wired straight into the booking system. Before that, it was a 2mp Kodak. That one was damaged by a "customer", as happens in jails..

Even a 2mp cam is plenty. We use New World Systems (total garbage, but that isn't the point) to run the entire PD. The booking module only took 9 years to implement... we had NWS before I moved to the jail, and it still didn't work right when I left. It works better now..

It would be hard to find a 2mp cam these days. You *may* find a 4mp. Any 4-5-6 mp camera that can be controlled via USB will work. Kodak's are inexpensive and take very good pictures. Depending on the system you use and the storage you have available, you could turn down the resolution to 1.3-2mp and still have better images than you were getting from a webcam..

All of our patrol cameras are also Kodaks, 4 and 7mp models. We use the 7's because we couldn't get the 4's anymore. There are about 30 of them out on the street. They take the place of Polaroids for times when pictures are needed, but they don't necessarily need to call out the CSI's to take them. That is in a department with 200 sworn and 150 civilian personnel..

Crime Scene PhotographyA small gallery of personal work: http://picasaweb.google.com/PID885..

Bikinchris wrote:.

I would think in this day and age, police departments would want touse a system that would allow them to share images with otheragancies to verify that they do or don't have a person wanted forsomething more serious.Chris, Broussard, LA.

Although you wouldn't know it from TV, this is the one area that Police don't share on a regular basis. We all have pictures, but what's ours is ours, and what's theirs in theirs. Getting copies requires a phone call or three, and either a nasty fax copy or finding someone that a)knows how b)has access and c)has the time, to email a copy to someone that a)has email b)is capable of receiving attachments c)can get the email copy to the person that needs the photo..

The national database (NCIC) doesn't do pictures, regardless of what you see on CSI. Nor does any AFIS fingerprint system work like that....

We don't verify identities by photographs, regardless of how we share them. We verify identity by fingerprints. Now, in the past few years, the information in NCIC has changed. The old 20 digit NCIC fingerprint classification system is being replaced with the new IAFIS classification system. The 20 digit system used 2 characters per finger, and was useful for a quick and dirty scan to see if we needed to look further into an ID. A matching (or close) NCIC class meant that we needed to do a full 10 print comparison.

The new IAFIS codes are pretty much useless for such work, and require much more effort to verify ID's, basically requiring a 10 print comparison every time..

It is a little more complicated than that, but it is a quick and dirty rundown on how we do things..

Crime Scene PhotographyA small gallery of personal work: http://picasaweb.google.com/PID885..

Thanks to all for the replies, they've been most helpful. What I'm getting here is that you think a "stand alone" camera wired to the booking computer is the best way to go?.

We had something similar a while back and switched out. That was an old Sony Mavica, snap the pic, remove the disc, etc. It was complicated and a waste of time with more current tecnhologies out there. We switched to our current disaster, and here I am ..

Just one last thought about the webcam - I noticed one of the posters said that webcams are garbage for pic quality, and I agree - does that include the new 2 megapixel variety? HP came out with the "2 megapixel webcam" shown here http://crunchgear.com/2006/10/02/hps-two-megapixel-webcam/ ..

I just don't want our guys (well meaning though they are) to be messing with settings on a camera that has all kinds of buttons..

Thanks again for your help, it is most appreciated...

Contact Panasonic. I work in a different division, but our security products are among the best around. I'm sure your PD is already using a ton of our stuff as is every military and gov't branch. You may have passed through the Clearpass at any number of airports.....that's our stuff too..

Email me or hit the panasonic.com site and check out security. I can put you in touch with the right folks..

TimColumbus, Ohiohttp://www.pbase.com/pdqgp..

On any given day, you can buy for about $100 if not less a cheap P&S digital camera that has a really basic "portrait" mode. No one has to mess with any settings, they just press the button and make sure the subject is in the little smiley face outline..

Personally, if you can find one of the early models with "wireless connectivity" for a couple hundred that's what I do. Then you could download wirelessly to the booking computer and keep the computer that much farther away from the people you're booking. (Or go the conventional route and in 2 years all the cheapies will connect wirelessly too)..

'Nice pen, bet you write good stories with it.'..

Pretty much any digital camera would outdo the webcam..

Perhaps you could ask the local community to donate. Even an older digital camera would be a significant improvement..

If you're interested in a camera that could over you more capability and still be cheap, perhaps a Fuji S5200. Canon make some older models ( the A460, I think is one example ) that are also perfectly useful..

Also you should get a card reader for your camera to transfer the files..

I don't know your software setup, but there is quite a large amount of open source software, much of it free, which would be quite useful to you..

If you need help on technique when you find one, remember the to get back to the forum..

StephenG.

Fuji S9600Fuji S5200Fuji F30Fuji E900Canon A710ISPCLinuxOS..

Thanks again for your replies -.

I don't need cheap, just need something not too complex. I guess the stand alone camera linked to our processing software is the way to go. Thanks for your help all...

There's some very decent quality webcams out there. I do wonder if they'd be sturdy enough though..

What you often see for pics like this is a video camera hooked up to a frame grabber which at the press of a button grabs a series of frames to choose from..

I'd talk to a few vendors in the photobadge industry.Don't wait for the Nikon D-whatever, have fun now!http://www.flickr.com/photos/j_wijnands/..

Here in the UK, it would be easy for the police, to enlist the help of the local camera club, there are many clubs in the UK that would be delighted to help..

If you contact the nearist local camera club in your erea, I am sure they will come allong to assist you, after all it is also in there interest to help you give good service to there community.Best wishesMike Rudge..

Our jailers never touch the camera, there is no need to mess with anything once the camera is mounted. The software controls it all, from the booking module. That seems to be a common capability among such systems, so shouldn't be a problem..

Although I haven't used the HP webcam, I would still recommend a low end point and shoot. The pictures will be of better resolution when you need to see them later, not dark and grainy. The booking cam in our jail is mounted on a simple clamp, about 7 feet from the wall. It takes perfectly good head/shoulder mugshots, and can be adjusted easily by the operator to point down/up to capture tats.The camera isn't removed from the stand for that..

Crime Scene PhotographyA small gallery of personal work: http://picasaweb.google.com/PID885..

I don't have this camera, but I understand it can be set-up for 'Remote Capture'..

I'm thinking you mount it a plexi-glass case so that once the camera functions are set, only the person with the key to the case can get in to change them - similar to what is sometimes done with office thermostat controls..

Cut out a hole for the lens and flash (and a hole on top to stick a pen thru to press the On/Off button if the camera can't be turned On/Off via the computer). And if the case is stout enough, could survive a knock or two from a unruly prisoner..

Canon A640 review:http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canona640/.

You might also re-ask this question is the Canon Talk Forum and for that matter in one or two of the other camera specific P&S forums to get more/better (ie. first hand) responses..

Good Day,Roonal.

'Money doesn't buy happiness, but it makes for an extravagant depression' by golf tournament sportscaster..

Here's some software that allows one to control Canon Powershot camera from a PC - they say ID Photographers are among it's users..

PSRemote from Breeze Systemshttp://www.breezesys.com/PSRemote/index.htm.

"The remote capture function is fantastic for studio work and time lapse. V. heavy on batteries though, might have to get the AC adaptor.".

Http://www.dpreview.com/...nion_text.asp?prodkey=canon_a640&opinion=35537.

Canon ACK-600 AC Adapter Kit.

Http://www.bhphotovideo.com/...REG/Canon_6870A001_ACK_600_AC_Adapter_Kit.html.

Good Day,Roonal.

'Money doesn't buy happiness, but it makes for an extravagant depression' by golf tournament sportscaster..

Bretty19 wrote:.

...We're looking for as high quality an image that we can get..

Are you sure? There are some VERY high IQ cameras!.

What consideration do you give to file format, size, etc?.

Do these pix need to be protected against modifications? Like will they ever be used as evidence in court?.

Charlie DavisNikon 5700 & Sony R1CATS #25PAS Scribe @ http://www.here-ugo.com/PAS_List.htmHomePage: http://www.1derful.info'I brake for pixels...'..

Bretty19 wrote:.

Any suggestions on a simple, moveable, cheap solution for us? Thiswill be for taking still pictures only, no video, no sound. We'relooking for as high quality an image that we can get..

A basic point-and-shoot digital camera (anything with at least 4 megapixels, 3x optical zoom, a LCD preview screen, and a recognizable brand name) $100 to $150.

One or two memory cards..

Enough lights in the booking/ID area that you can take a decent picture without using direct flash (which could obscure the suspect's eye color with "red eye")..

Handwritten cards with the names and ID numbers of the suspects. Snap photos with the cards at the top or bottom of the frame to make it easier to keep files straight...

Thank you all for your replies - I'm sorry I haven't replied, but this is my first day back to work..

I'm not sure that I made myself clear - we've captured digitally for years - directly onto our prisoner photo system. The system and method of capture is fine, we have thousands upon thousands of digital mug photos. My only concern is the actual camera used to take the picture - nothing else. The current webcam is garbage..

Chuxter brought up some good questions re the file size - it can't be too massive, police computers are generally junk and will gack out with too much image. In terms of presenting images for court consideration, mug photos aren't generally a big concern until they enter photo lineups. The background process for that ensures that photos that needed to be removed from the system are long gone by the time we need to present them to witnesses..

It seems that most of you are recommending a cheap 4-6 megapixel camera, which I can plug in fine. Some of the remote capture options discussed are interesting and I will research them further. The housing suggested was a great idea, but we need to pick the camera up to take tatoo pics..

Thanks again, if you have any other ideas please let me know...