I think Elements 5 is a good value, much better value than the more expensive photoshop CS3..

I use Elements 5. There is a free 30-day trial. Download it from Adobe's website. In 30 days you can experiment a lot and try many tutorials on the web..

Tylerhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/tcoen..

It's a great program and good value for what it does. But to get the best out of it, you'll need to learn it. Once you do, it'll seem like one of the best bits of software you've ever used. But don't expect it to transform your photos five minutes after loading it. You will need practice. You might need a book (there are plenty out there)..

Google it, and you'll proably see some tutorials that might give you an idea what you're up against..

Androohttp://Androo.smugmug.com..

Photoshop Elements 5 is a great program. Like the full Adobe Photoshop, it does have a learning curve, but not so great as the "mother" shoftware. There are online courses that are very good for learning PSE5, and yet most are inexpensive. I am taking one now that is $20 for 6 weeks of lessons. Ignoring the opportunity to interact with the other students and get feedback from them and the teacher, the study material received is worth a lot more than that (and can be used as reference material later. I advise printing it out). Some things you can do immediately, but to learn all of the wonderful features in PSE5 will take some time and use.Homer Scarborough..

Patricia47 wrote:.

"Do I need this?.

Yes. Taking a pic with a DC is only 1/2 the job..

How difficult is it to understand and use?.

VERY difficult! But it's worth the effort to learn....

Isthere something else that is better or easier?.

No. Not for a beginner..

I really want sharper photos and everyone seems to Post Process..

It can also help to learn how to use your camera. Which camera do you have?.

I just got mycamera and have only used the software (picture motion browser)that came with it. I also have something that came with mycomputer called "Microsoft Picture It Pro Premium 9". Mostly theaforementioned programs only seem to brighten a photo. They canbring out detail by using Contrast adjustment but it comes outlooking kind of like an x-ray, all blown out..

Normally, the free software you get with products is worth what you paid for them..

Perhaps I am just doing it wrong..

Probably..

Please advise..

The advantage to getting PSE5 is that it will do 95% of what the $600 version does. And it does have a few "push the button to magically fix everything" kinda helps for the beginner. After you learn PSE5, it's easy to grow into CS2-CS3....

My 5 general rules of Digital Photography:.

1. Use 1/2 press 100% of the time..

2. Don't over-expose..

3. Set dSLRs to Sharpen/Contrast/Saturation +...set non-dSLRs to Sharpen/Contrast/Saturation -...turn off in-camera NR if you can.4. Use mild and selective NR in PP..

5. Correct exposure, correct color, sharpen lightly, and apply shadow correction in PP..

Charlie DavisNikon 5700 & Sony R1CATS #25PAS Scribe @ http://www.here-ugo.com/PAS_List.htmHomePage: http://www.1derful.info'I brake for pixels...'..

Oh...another BIG benefit of buying into one of the Photoshop varieties, is that there are billions and billions of PS users, so courses and books are plentiful..

The best PS resource is the "Retouching Forum" here on DPR. After you get PSE5 and learn the basics, go there with a problem photo...one that you can't quite make look right. Offer it to them...ask for help...they will take you photo and PP it for you...some will tell you HOW they did it! They accept these "challenges" every day and seem to thrive on competing with each other. A GREAT way to learn!.

Learn how to post pix properly. Don't exceed 900 x 600 (for dSLRs) and 800 x 600 (for non-dSLRs). Be sure EXIF data is attached to the pix. Some photo hosting sites strip the EXIF data and some PP software does too. Ask questions and all this can be explained..

If you are asking for help, offer a full-size pic, in addition to the 900 x 600 version. But, don't make the BIG pic imbed automatically! That's bad manners. Instead, put a LINK to it. This is normally done by adding a semi-colon at the right-end..

Charlie DavisNikon 5700 & Sony R1CATS #25PAS Scribe @ http://www.here-ugo.com/PAS_List.htmHomePage: http://www.1derful.info'I brake for pixels...'..

I'm so glad you asked this question, my wife gave me PSE5, I thought it was a kinda outdated type software that she got somewhat cheap, so I was looking today at alternatives, came to this website that says "Lightroom" is the most used and requested. Maybe I'll just become more familiar with what I have!!http://digital-photography-school.com/.../blog/category/post-production-tips/..

Gosh, what a confusing post!.

Jaharris1001 wrote:.

I'm so glad you asked this question, my wife gave me PSE5, Ithought it was a kinda outdated type software that she got somewhatcheap, so I was looking today at alternatives, came to this websitethat says "Lightroom" is the most used and requested..

Wow, what a sentence!.

1. Your wife gave you a nice present.2. You were suspicious.3. Thunk she got the software cheap.4. I assume you don't lower your self to use CHEAP products?5. But her gift made you desire a better photo editor.6.



7. The website said that something called "Lightroom" is the worlds most popular..

Then you decide for some reason that perhaps your wife's gift might be OK after all....

Maybe I'll just become more familiar with what I have!!.

Then you provided a link....

Http://digital-photography-school.com/.../blog/category/post-production-tips/.

...which was a non-random poll of 200 students at DPS, what ever that is. I assume this is the source of your wisdom? .

I can't tell if you like PSE5.I can't tell if you like Lightroom.I don't know if there is a question you'd like to ask?.

Just in case you want to know about photo editors, I have both PSE5 and Lightroom. I use them BOTH. They are NOT mutually exclusive! Lightroom is PRIMARILY a photo database, with a few basic editing functions. PSE5 is essentially the same as CS2-3, but it has had some of the advanced functions disabled. It also has a few simple, beginner finctions added. PSE5 is a general purpose photo editor..

Both Lightroom and PSE5 will require a LOT of work to get proficient with them. But this work is worthwhile!.

Charlie DavisNikon 5700 & Sony R1CATS #25PAS Scribe @ http://www.here-ugo.com/PAS_List.htmHomePage: http://www.1derful.info'I brake for pixels...'..

Thanks for the reply Charlie,, boy you put alot of effort into analyzing my post,, thank you for clarifying..

But seriously, my wife gave me that about 1-2 year ago, she said it was in one of those bins at wallmart. I'm familiar with the brand "Photoshop" and am aware it is a quality product, but it seems just like everything else there are frequent upgrades to products that make them more user friendly or whatever so I wanted to research..

I've recentlt aquired a DSLR and got back from a vacation where I took alot of pics, so my excitment level is high. I've been cruisin the internet checking thinks out and my point was that I'm glad that this is still a viable and updated product that alot of peolpe are still using.I have ALOT to learn with PSE5!! And digital photography in general.I do appreciate your candor and your response. ..

Jaharris1001 wrote:.

Thanks for the reply Charlie,, boy you put alot of effort intoanalyzing my post,, thank you for clarifying..

My pleasure. Glad you enjoyed my "humor"....

But seriously, my wife gave me that about 1-2 year ago, she said itwas in one of those bins at wallmart..

PSE5 is the latest version. I don't think it was available 2 years ago, so it was prolly more like 1 year ago..

I'm familiar with the brand"Photoshop" and am aware it is a quality product, but it seems justlike everything else there are frequent upgrades to products thatmake them more user friendly or whatever so I wanted to research..

Photoshop is the standard. PSE has been a good product and in deferance to that website, I'm pretty sure it has been the biggest seller of all photo editors. That's why you can buy it at Wally World..

I've recentlt aquired a DSLR and got back from a vacation where Itook alot of pics, so my excitment level is high. I've been cruisinthe internet checking thinks out and my point was that I'm gladthat this is still a viable and updated product that alot of peolpeare still using..

Oh. Well, I'm glad you are excited..

I have ALOT to learn with PSE5!! And digital photography in general..

Yep..

I do appreciate your candor and your response. .

I still didn't notice a question! I'll answer it anyway....

You should start hanging out on the Retouching Forum, here on DPR. The people where are regulars there are EXPERTS at using Photoshop! They are generous with their time...IF they sense a genuine desire to learn. Ask questions, but before you do, investigate the subject a bit so that you won't appear to be a goof-ball. For example, it's better to ask:.

"I tried to put the background OOF with PSE5, but after several attempts, it's obvious I don't understand how to do this. Can anybody get me started in the right direction?".

...than to ask:.

"Could somebody soften the background in this picture for me? I'd appreciate knowing how you did it too!".

One ploy that seems to work on RF, is to give them a problem, ie:.

"This picture needs a lot of help. I've tried, but this is as good as I can do (then show a TERRIBLE PP job). Can anybody do better?.

This will often turn this into a contest, with LOTS of good approaches..

Many people like PSE. It's about 95% as capable as the $600 Photoshop products. You can use it for years before you will be competent enough to move up..

Charlie DavisNikon 5700 & Sony R1CATS #25PAS Scribe @ http://www.here-ugo.com/PAS_List.htmHomePage: http://www.1derful.info'I brake for pixels...'..

If you just want to sharpen and do minor adjustments, download and Fastview Image Ware. It's great to just view, sharpen and make minor adjustments and works great and it's free...

You mean like this?Before:.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

[After:.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

Not happy with my attempts,, you have any suggestions Chuxter?..

How neutered is the trial version of PSE5? And what do you all think of the quick and dirty object isolation feature?..

HappyNewCanonUser wrote:.

How neutered is the trial version of PSE5?.

It is the full featured product, but with a 30 day operational limit..

And what do you all think of the quick and dirty object isolation feature?.

I don't know what that means, could you explain further?Never trust a man who spells the word 'cheese' with a 'z'..

Jaharris1001 wrote:.

You mean like this?Before:.

[After:.

Not happy with my attempts,, you have any suggestions Chuxter?.

Yes. It looks as though you over-did the PP, IMO. Here is what I would do:.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

I only did 2 things:.

1. Levels (Ctrl-L)...move white slider down to 223.2. Shadows & Highlights...25, 10, 0.

If you send a full size pic, I will also attempt NR and sharpening. With the little 800 x 533 size, it's not worth trying! Note that when you DO send a big file like that, put the link and add a ";" at the right end. This will keep it from displaying automatically..

Charlie DavisNikon 5700 & Sony R1CATS #25PAS Scribe @ http://www.here-ugo.com/PAS_List.htmHomePage: http://www.1derful.info'I brake for pixels...'..

As Glen said, the trial is a full version..

I'm guessing that you are wondering how well the isolation tools work?.

There are 8 different tools:.

Magic Wand ToolSelection BrushMagic Selection BrushLasso ToolMagic Lasso ToolPoly Lasso ToolRectangular Marquee ToolEliptical Marquee Tool.

Each user seems to select a few of these to use. I use the Magic Wand and Selection Brush about 99% of the time. Once you learn to use these tools, they do fine..

Charlie DavisNikon 5700 & Sony R1CATS #25PAS Scribe @ http://www.here-ugo.com/PAS_List.htmHomePage: http://www.1derful.info'I brake for pixels...'..

Http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j143/jaharris1001/IMG_0304.jpg.

Thanks Chuxter, I posted in Retouching forum,, check out what they came up with. Pretty inspiring!!Thanks again..

Thanks. I just downloaded it. I like the tutorial for quickly removing a background. Since Adobe is letting me use their software for 30 days, I think I'll go ahead and download CS3 and give it a spin. Now I can actually try out some of those techniques I've seen in Pop Photo. Thanks again!..

Same boat here! New to DSLR and PSE5. I will add that I bought a new copy of PSE5 on Ebay for $30 Shipped..

Its very hard and I think the worst part is that we load the picture hoping for the results of some of the pictures we see on this site and that wont happen until we learn how to use it..

Im still having a ball and my new XTI is unreal..

Good Luck.

Http://www.pbase.com/c_heath..

Congrats to you and your recent XTi purchase. I have a 30D. Everytime the shutter goes "ka-shlink!" I feel like I'm shooting a magnum. I also love 5 fps (= gatling gun)..

I too, am trying desperately to take decent pictures. Right now, it seems that I took better ones with a borrowed PNS I previously had. I guess the PNS was doing most of the work and I have to learn how to shoot for real now! (I don't use any of the auto modes)...

HappyNewCanonUser wrote:.

I too, am trying desperately to take decent pictures. Right now, itseems that I took better ones with a borrowed PNS I previously had.I guess the PNS was doing most of the work and I have to learn howto shoot for real now! (I don't use any of the auto modes)..

PNS, as you call them, are known to over-process the pix in-camera, because that's what the average user wants to see. As you move up the food-chain, more "professional" cameras tend to produce more "natural" results from the camera. The rationalle, is that more "pro" users WANT to control the PP after-the-fact...not have the camera do it..

Thus your delema with your dSLR. You are going to have to learn how to set the sharpening, saturation, contrast, color balance, etc. You CAN make it look like a PNS if you really want to... .

Charlie DavisNikon 5700 & Sony R1CATS #25PAS Scribe @ http://www.here-ugo.com/PAS_List.htmHomePage: http://www.1derful.info'I brake for pixels...'..

No, I don't want it to look PNS-ey. I'm just going to have to learn how to do some good post-proc in RAW. This'll definitely take some doing. But that's what I bought this DSLR for: to make better pictures...

Does anyone know a good way to get rid of jaggies which invariably surface after using the clone tool (and even trying to clean it up with the eraser)?..

Hmm, it sounds like there's something amiss in your cloning technique or in your brush setting. Did you choose a hard edged brush? If so, click the clone tool icon at the far left of the options bar and choose Reset Tool..

After the fact, try selecting the cloned object, then Select>Border, which selects the edges of your selection, so to speak, and apply a slight gaussian blur..

But "jaggies" are not normal if you are cloning with a soft brush...

You might also try cloning to a separate layer and reducing opacity a bit in the future...

Actually, I was trying to isolate an object but I think the brush setting and Gaussian advice applies. Thank you..

Anyone know if there is an "Isolation for Dummies" guide teaching all the different ways to isolate AND do it well like the big boys?..

HappyNewCanonUser wrote:.

Anyone know if there is an "Isolation for Dummies" guide teachingall the different ways to isolate AND do it well like the big boys?.

That's one of the really tough ones. I've never seen a tutoral on every way to do it. Hair is the almost impossible thing to isolate!.

I've learned by simply trying LOTS of diffierent approaches. Practice makes it so-so?.

Charlie DavisNikon 5700 & Sony R1CATS #25PAS Scribe @ http://www.here-ugo.com/PAS_List.htmHomePage: http://www.1derful.info'I brake for pixels...'..

Hi,.

I am a newbie and just about to buy a canon 400D. Where I live there are no photography courses in English - can any of you recomend a good book or DVD aimed for beginners that explains the mysteries of Elements 5 or PP in general?.

I also note that some people use, in addition , Lightroom. Am I right in thinking that Lightroom is a Raw converter and that Elements then does the pp?.

One last question, and I apologise for hijacking this thread - but it is elements related;) - does Lightroom or Elements have batch raw conversion - the idea of taking 100 photos and then individually converting and pp seems to me a lot of time......

PS Elements (PSE) has a pretty good basic raw converter built in, using much of the same technology found in Lightroom (LR). So you might not notice much difference in quality at first. Yes you can use LR in conjunction with PSE (I do, and it works great)..

When used that way, LR takes the place of the PSE Organizer and the PSE Raw developer and you basically use PSE as the editor portion of LR..

Why would a beginner need Lightroom? Personally, I don't think a beginner does need it. The PSE organizer and raw developer work OK, (though I personally despise the PSE organizer!), and may be all the photo software some people (even serious amateurs) need. I'd hold off buying LR until I felt a definite need for it.Now that you've judged the quality of my typing, take a look at my photos..http://www.photo.net/photos/GlenBarrington..

Thanks Glen, I only mentioned Lightroom as I had read such good things about it on the net - if PSE 5 can, broadly, do the same thing then, I agree with you, as a beginner it would be better to stick with Elements..

Any suggestions regarding book or dvd?.

Thanks..

For Elements, either the Missing Manual by Brundage and/or Elements for digital photographers by Kelby. Kelby gives just step by step instructions with no "why" for what you're doing, so it's good for when you just need to something right now. Brundage is far more thorough, going into all the settings for all the tools and when you'd use them, etc. Both are very good books; they complement each other well..

For a more advanced book, Richard Lynch's Hidden Power of Photoshop Elements will let you do a lot of things you might not have thought you could do in PE...

Ramlin wrote:.

Hi,I am a newbie and just about to buy a canon 400D. Where I livethere are no photography courses in English - can any of yourecomend a good book or DVD aimed for beginners that explains themysteries of Elements 5 or PP in general?.

There are good PP resources on the web. Start out by hanging out on the Retouching Forum here on DPR. You will learn a lot! Those guys are helpful...IF you will make some effort to learn..

I also note that some people use, in addition , Lightroom. Am Iright in thinking that Lightroom is a Raw converter and thatElements then does the pp?.

As has been explained, both do RAW conversion. Lightroom is a photo database...it keeps track of your pix for you. It does this in a very easy and unobtrusive way. Although Glen suggested you start out with PSE, I'd suggest you not collect TOO many pix before you learn how to organize them!.

Go look at the Lightroom tutorials (free) on rawworkflow.com. Not only are they instructive, they also will "sell" you on the concept!.

One last question, and I apologise for hijacking this thread - butit is elements related;) - does Lightroom or Elements have batchraw conversion - the idea of taking 100 photos and thenindividually converting and pp seems to me a lot of time.....

Yes. BUT, once you learn more, you will understand that unless the lighting and the camera settings are absolutely the same, batch processing RAW is not good..

My RAW and JPEG workflow is the same. I use LR to adjust lighting and WB...and also do a minimal sharpening and NR. [There is a new version of LR...1.1...about to pop out that will improve the sharpening and NR]. I also crop in LR. Then I export to PSE, where I do more complex things, involving layers. Then I save a PSE version and import it into LR and put it in the same group as the original..

Charlie DavisNikon 5700 & Sony R1CATS #25PAS Scribe @ http://www.here-ugo.com/PAS_List.htmHomePage: http://www.1derful.info'I brake for pixels...'..