Yes you are overanalyzing it. Why is IS so importan t for you? And +5 EV seems nice but milking every last drop of light from a shot that way doesn't exactl make nice pictures. Using a tripod under extreme conditions does.Don't wait for the Nikon D-whatever, have fun now!http://www.flickr.com/photos/j_wijnands/..
See subject. It has naught to do with, say, sensitivity...
Flash64 wrote:.
Guys, final post to help me make my determination and would like yourinput. I have it down between these two DLSR. I absolutely want IS..
So, why D80 is on your list?.
I am also wanting DLSR for faster fps which the D80 has for sportshots of my kids playing hockey indoors and soccer outdoors..
Both 100 and D80 do 3fps..
I am also looking for good indoor shots as I will be going to Europe nextyear and will have to take pictures in low light situations. This iswhere the EV +/-5 comes into play as well as better high ISO settingson D80..
You a little bit lost here. Exposure adjustment range of 5EV doesn't have anything to do with low light performance. In fact I can't see any practical usage of it, it would be hard to find camera with such terrible exposure metering system, that you need 5EV adjustments..
However, I really do not want to spend that much on the D80to get the lense I want as well as the camera. Will the low ISO andEV settings on the Sony be that bad or am I over analyzing this?.
You know what... Don't get any of those cameras. Get Pentax K10D. Has SR (as 100), does 3fps as both cameras you're considering, has larger buffer than 100 and D80, better high sensitivity performance than 100 and in my opinion than D80, although it's debatable, aggressive noise reduction and detail loss in D80 vs. very small noise reduction and all details there in K10D. And most important: K10D excels in it's ergonomics..
And low light performance... Well, here's typical European low light performance examples from K10D. You would get those shots with 100 but I doubt that you would be successful with D80 Nikon doesn't have wide angle VR lenses (except maybe 18-200 VR, which isn't really wide angle), my friend with Canon 20D was struggling in the same conditions (handshake)..
ISO800, 1/8 sec handheld:.
Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.
ISO1600, 1/10 sec handheld (and it is red not because wrong Auto WB, it was red there):.
Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.
ISO800, 1/10 sec handheld:.
Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.
Edvinas..
Honestly I don't think you need a DSLR at all. If you do you want any entry level one..
Given the content of your post you do not actually know how to use a camera, let alone a DSLR, and will find it very tough going. In a practical sense the D80 would be a monster for you. It has no IS and this shows you have done no research, which will certainly come back to haunt you. It's a fine camera, but it's overkill. Again the Sony is a fine camera, but perhaps more money than you need spend..
You need to reconsider IS a a requirement. It's useful, but not really for the things you mention..
Read up more before you get hurt spending money..
Consider the Pentax K100D or Nikon D40 with their basic kit lenses, which are fine camera systems, capable of professional results and cheap..
I'd suggest investigating a cheap super zoom, like a Canon S3 or Sony H5, or the Fuji S6000. These are good travel cameras. You'll be surprised how good these cameras are. Have a look at flikr and the forums to see examples of what's possible..
StephenG.
Pentax K100DFuji S5200Fuji E900PCLinuxOS..
If you have Nikon lenses, get the D80. If you have Minolta lenses, get the Alpha. If you have neither, look at the K10D...
Sjgcit wrote:.
Honestly I don't think you need a DSLR at all. If you do you wantany entry level one..
Given the content of your post you do not actually know how to use acamera, let alone a DSLR, and will find it very tough going..
ISO, shutter, aperature, once those things are done and you are still getting cliping in the shadows or highlights, EV is another way to ensure proper exposure across the tonal range..
In a.
Practical sense the D80 would be a monster for you. It has no IS andthis shows you have done no research, which will certainly come backto haunt you..
D80 does not have it in the body, but has IS in certain high price lenses..
It's a fine camera, but it's overkill. Again the Sony.
Is a fine camera, but perhaps more money than you need spend..
You need to reconsider IS a a requirement. It's useful, but notreally for the things you mention..
It's usefull for when you are shooting long range without a tripod in the stands to avoid additional hand shake..
Read up more before you get hurt spending money..
Consider the Pentax K100D or Nikon D40 with their basic kit lenses,which are fine camera systems, capable of professional results andcheap..
I'd suggest investigating a cheap super zoom, like a Canon S3 or SonyH5, or the Fuji S6000. These are good travel cameras. You'll besurprised how good these cameras are. Have a look at flikr and theforums to see examples of what's possible..
Before you go off on a post, you need to ask questions, not insult..
StephenG.
Pentax K100DFuji S5200Fuji E900PCLinuxOS..
Flash64 wrote:.
Sjgcit wrote:.
Honestly I don't think you need a DSLR at all. If you do you wantany entry level one..
Given the content of your post you do not actually know how to use acamera, let alone a DSLR, and will find it very tough going..
ISO, shutter, aperature, once those things are done and you are stillgetting cliping in the shadows or highlights, EV is another way toensure proper exposure across the tonal range..
How can I say this w/o insulting you? Hmmm...Oh, fuddy...I'll just say it: "I think you are confused.".
The EV control just tweaks (though some would say 10 EV is more than a "tweak") the exposure settings. You can always do the same thing by adjusting ISO, shutter time, and aperture..
In a.
Practical sense the D80 would be a monster for you. It has no IS andthis shows you have done no research, which will certainly come backto haunt you..
D80 does not have it in the body, but has IS in certain high pricelenses..
Yes, we all know that. You do too. I guess sjgcit missed your comment about not really wanting to buy the $$$ Nikon lenses to get VR..
It's a fine camera, but it's overkill. Again the Sony.
Is a fine camera, but perhaps more money than you need spend..
You need to reconsider IS a a requirement. It's useful, but notreally for the things you mention..
It's usefull for when you are shooting long range without a tripod inthe stands to avoid additional hand shake..
There are pills to solve your shaking. Some beverages are reported to work also...and they have interesting side effects. .
Charlie DavisNikon 5700 & Sony R1HomePage: http://www.1derful.infoBridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/..
You will need good high ISO performance in addition to the IS. Indoor hockey is dark, unless you are shooting in a pro arena. The K100D Special would be the ticket. 2nd Choice would be the K10D, IMHO...
As you have seen from the various posts you have made on this subject, the answers generally go along the line of "buy the brand I use.".
I wouldn't tell you which to go for except to tell you the only important thing. SLR Photography is about the system and when starting out, the best advice you can get is to buy into a system you can grow into..
Nikon has a strong system in place. Sony says it is committed to building one. Weigh both up and the current bodies you are looking at as well and just go for it..
If you make the wrong choice you can always go through the pleasant and totally hassle free process of jumping ship when you start to hit barriers with the system you chose..
Http://dakanji.com..
Chuxter wrote:.
Flash64 wrote:.
Sjgcit wrote:.
Honestly I don't think you need a DSLR at all. If you do you wantany entry level one..
Given the content of your post you do not actually know how to use acamera, let alone a DSLR, and will find it very tough going..
ISO, shutter, aperature, once those things are done and you are stillgetting cliping in the shadows or highlights, EV is another way toensure proper exposure across the tonal range..
How can I say this w/o insulting you? Hmmm...Oh, fuddy...I'll just say it: "I think you are confused.".
The EV control just tweaks (though some would say 10 EV is more thana "tweak") the exposure settings. You can always do the same thing byadjusting ISO, shutter time, and aperture..
Charlie, why don't you read my post instead of trying to act like you are the best photographer in the world. Let alone, this is a beginner forum....I did say if you adjust ISO, shutter, aperature and are still getting cliping, then you can tweat with EV to help get a proper tonal range. I shoot exclusively by histogram and do not worry to much about what the camera is telling and my pictures on my H5 are coming out very good. I am not sure if you have had a bad day or what but come on and give constructive feedback and useful information..
In a.
Practical sense the D80 would be a monster for you. It has no IS andthis shows you have done no research, which will certainly come backto haunt you..
D80 does not have it in the body, but has IS in certain high pricelenses..
Yes, we all know that. You do too. I guess sjgcit missed your commentabout not really wanting to buy the $$$ Nikon lenses to get VR..
It's a fine camera, but it's overkill. Again the Sony.
Is a fine camera, but perhaps more money than you need spend..
You need to reconsider IS a a requirement. It's useful, but notreally for the things you mention..
It's usefull for when you are shooting long range without a tripod inthe stands to avoid additional hand shake..
There are pills to solve your shaking. Some beverages are reported towork also...and they have interesting side effects. .
Charlie DavisNikon 5700 & Sony R1HomePage: http://www.1derful.infoBridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/..
Really, if you're serious about getting the best camera for your kid s sports or just of them running around the house, you can't do better than the 30D right now..
Prices are low and getting lower. It has the best high ISO images short of the Canon 5D and MKIII. No other camera manufacturer comes close..
Gene..
Flash64 wrote:.
Chuxter wrote:.
Flash64 wrote:.
ISO, shutter, aperature, once those things are done and you are stillgetting cliping in the shadows or highlights, EV is another way toensure proper exposure across the tonal range..
How can I say this w/o insulting you? Hmmm...Oh, fuddy...I'll just say it: "I think you are confused.".
The EV control just tweaks (though some would say 10 EV is more thana "tweak") the exposure settings. You can always do the same thing byadjusting ISO, shutter time, and aperture..
Charlie, why don't you read my post instead of trying to act like youare the best photographer in the world..
Sorry, we got off wrong here. I was reacting to your response to another poster who was trying to help you. You were a bit blunt...and wrong..
Let alone, this is abeginner forum....I did say if you adjust ISO, shutter, aperature andare still getting cliping, then you can tweat with EV to help get aproper tonal range..
My point was that most cameras have enough adjustment range to eliminate most blown highlights. For example, my R1 has ISO 160, f:16, and 1/2000 second. Unless I'm shooting the sun directly, I won't have anything blown out..
Although the marketing guys say the R1 has "EV Compensation", checking closely, I find that what they are talking about is just the above manual adjustment of sensitivity, aperture, and exposure time. Checking the EXIF data verifies that 160, 16, and 1/2000 is as far as the camera can go. There is no additional "EV Compensation" beyond that..
I looked at reviews of the D80 and A100 and neither seems to have an over-riding EV adjustment (above the normal sensitivity, aperture, and exposure time control). Both cameras (just like my R1) have a bar that indicates +/- 2 EV and little over-range indicators..
Both cameras have ISO 100 and 1/4000 sec, so that further diminishes those pesky overblown highlights, compared to my R1..
My belief is that you are still confused about what EV compensation is. In Phil's specifications, he lists Exposure Compensation as +/- 2 EV with 0.3 EV steps for the A100 and +/- 5 EV with 0.3 or 0.5 EV steps for the D80. Reading the Glossary, it's clear that he is describing an adjustment to the exposure set by the camera automatically (not manually)..
Http://www.dpreview.com/...n/?/Glossary/Exposure/Exposure_Compensation_01.htm.
My point was and is that you appear to believe that the D80 has a wider range of exposure values than the A100...which is not correct..
I shoot exclusively by histogram and do notworry to much about what the camera is telling and my pictures on myH5 are coming out very good..
That's a good approach. However, do you understand that neither of the dSLRs you are considering allow you to expose via histogram the way your H5 does? To use the histogram with them, you have to "chimp", which describes removing the camera from your face and looking at the LCD to see the histogram for the last shot...then if it's off, you delete that shot and tweak the exposure and try again..
I am not sure if you have had a bad dayor what but come on and give constructive feedback and usefulinformation..
I don't think yesterday was especially bad? I prolly disliked your "tone" or something. I guess you could say the same thing. Sorry..
Bottom Line: Using the difference in the Exposure Compensation spec to decide between the A100 and the D80 is silly, as it's a trivial difference. I would pick the D80, but not for that reason..
Charlie DavisNikon 5700 & Sony R1HomePage: http://www.1derful.infoBridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/..
Have you been to a store to try the cameras out? This is the best way IMO to choose a camera, one that feels right in your hand and has the adjustments that you think that you will need. They both will take great photos once you learn what they can do and learn settings. I would also look at the Olympus E-510 which has In-Body IS, Live View, it is very portable, and has the most effective sensor dust-reduction technology available today. I have enjoyed it emensely since I bought it as have many other users..
Olympus E-1, E-510, 7-14, 14-54, 50-200, 50 Macro, TC, ET, FL-50, Ring Flash.
Favorite Images: http://www.myfourthirds.com/folder.php?id=1912.
Best, John S...
Flash64 wrote:.
ISO, shutter, aperature, once those things are done and you are stillgetting cliping in the shadows or highlights, EV is another way toensure proper exposure across the tonal range..
Nope. It's only changing aperture or shutter speed..
Exposure Compensation lets you alter the way a camera's autoexposure/metering algorithms expose an image (brighten or darken it compared to the way the camera metered the scene). It's one of my most frequently used settings on most cameras..
A +EV value gives you a brighter exposure. The camera uses a slower shutter speed and/or larger aperture (smaller f/stop number) to get a brighter exposure, compared to what the camera's autoexposure/metering algorithms would have selected..
A -EV value gives you a darker exposure. The camera uses a faster shutter speed and/or smaller aperture (higher f/stop number) to get a darker exposure, compared to what the camera's autoexposure/metering algorithms would have selected..
If you're in Av Mode (Aperture Priority) and use Exposure Compensation, the camera will vary the shutter speed (since you're setting the aperture). If you're using Tv (Shutter Priority) mode and use Exposure Compensation, the camera will vary the Aperture (since you're controlling the shutter speed)..
If you're in Auto (or other similar modes), the camera may vary aperture or shutter speed when you use Exposure Compensation. In low light, since your aperture is already wide open, it varies shutter speed if you use a -EV setting..
If you're shooting in Manual Exposure mode, there is no Exposure Compensation (because your aperture and shutter speed settings take the place of it since you're controlling both)..
Correct Exposure comes down to the amount of light, the ISO speed, the shutter speed, and the aperture. A variety of combinations will produce identical exposure..
You use Exposure Compensation if you want a brighter or darker image compared to what the camera's metering would normally give you in the same conditions..
An example of when you may want to use a +EV setting is for a backlit subject, where the subject would normally be much darker than the rest of the image. Since the camera has a limited dynamic range, it doesn't know that you want the dark subject exposed properly (at the expense of the rest of the image). So, you can make the darker subject brighter for correct exposure (which might cause the rest of the scene to be overexposed some)..
If your subject is much brighter than the rest of the image (for example, direct sunlight hitting your subject, even though most of the photo is in shadows), you may want to use a -EV setting for Exposure Compensation so that your subject is not overexposed (making the rest of the image darker, too)..
The camera has a limited range of bright to dark that it can capture. So, it makes choices so that most of the iimage is correctly exposed, depending on your metering mode. Sometimes that may not be what you want. That's where exposure compensation comes in..
If you reach the camera's ISO speed limits and your shutter speeds are still slower than desired, you can also use exposure compensation to get faster shutter speeds by deliberately underexposing using a -EV Setting. Then, brighten the images later using software so that they appear to be correctly exposed..
But, this will increase noise levels, just as if the camera had an even higher ISO speed available (especially after you brighten the underexposed images with software), and deliberately underexposing and brightening images later also results in some loss of dynamic range. So, don't use this technique unless you have to..
JimChttp://www.pbase.com/jcockfield..