Well the viewfinder in my opion is a null point, you have a 2.5" one on the back of the camera it called liveview. I find that I can handhold my 50-200mm @ 200mm @ 1/25 and get great pictures that is a testament to the IS and dust well I had the E-500 before I bought the E-510 and for a year I never had a dust issue and I changes lens in all kinds of places from windy outside to dark draftless gyms and never had to clean the sensor. the colors are great the standard modes on the top dial will get you started, eg. you want to shoot sports the little running man on top of the dial is a good starting point. You want sunsets then scene mode and sunset you have great color and deep reds and orange. Fireworks it's there and plenty of room for you to grow.

This is just my view of a great camera.Alan AlexanderOlympus user and Proud owner.'If all else fails backup five yards and punt'..

I actually compared a D40X to my 2 year old *istDS at ISO 400. The D40x had no more resolution than the 6MP camera but produced a more plastic look. The lack of a top LCD is a pain and you can only use lenses with the internal focus motor..

I would add the K100D Special to the pile. It will be the best at higher ISO. IT will have the K10D'd AS and sensor cleaner. The viewfinder is as good as that of the D40x. It will also be compatable with all PK lenses, including the ones with internal focus motors...

Llumi wrote:.

Yesterday I visited my local camera shop, tried several cameras andended up with the following shoppinglist that fits my budget:- Nikon D40x + 18-55/55-200 VR- Ollympus 510 + 17-45 / 40-150mm.

Nikon has ease of use/user friendliness/out of box image quality andfool proof as biggest assetts, besides many more available lensesofcourse..

That latter one does not hold for the D40x - actually, the number and range of AF lenses that work with it with full compatibility may even be lower and narrower than the current range of FourThirds lenses manufactured by Olympus, Leica and Sigma. The only lenses that provide full compatibility with the D40x are the ones labelled AF-S..

Olympus has the in camera Vibration Reduction, the anti-dust featureand more options than the D40x, but yet in a very light and compactdesign. And the sales person told me that the lenses that come withit are of better quality than the standard ones from Nikon..

Umm, not sure about the last one. If you had the kit with the new 14-42mm ED lens then yes, but the 17.5-45mm one you mention is not much of a lens I hear. The telephoto kit lenses are both surprisingly good I understand (55-200VR and 40-150ED)..

What is not user friendly of the Nikon is the absence of in-cameraVibration Reduction and dust removal.

The latter of which is the bigger concern. Olympus clearly have an edge here..

While the Olympus has a muchsmaller and darker viewfinder, which makes it fairly difficult if youwant to focuss by hand, right.

You are right about the viewfinder size - though I am not that sure about the brightness difference, have you noticed it yourself? - but this is not the point. The E-510 has a handy LiveView feature, which is essentially a manual focus aid. I have tried it myself. You need to magnify into the live view feed to take full advantage of it, and then you will see how well it works. In fact it surprised me too - some of the compacts I had used offered an apparently similar feature, but on those cameras it was just a gimmick. On the E-510 it worked absolutely well for MF.

First, power up the camera, of course. Then hit the LiveView button to activate LiveView and push the right arrow button on the four-way pad, labelled "AF" and switch to MF mode. That's a breeze. Next, push the "INFO" button repeatedly until you see a green rectangle in the LCD. Now hit OK, and you have 7x magnification! You can now manually focus with extreme precision using the focus ring on the lens mounted on the camera.

Once you have achieved focus, hit OK again, check your composition, and fire off the shutter. There is going to be a delay that you do not have to deal with when using the viewfinder instead of LiveView, but it's not an eternity. The whole process is much faster than it may seem after reading the above..

But my question is now, what according to you is the better camerafor a beginning and aspiring photographer?.

I would take the E-510. It also has a better grip (I have tried the D40x too). But do yourself a favour and ask for the double kit that has the 14-42mm lens instead of the 17.5-45mm one!..

True, but Lifeview is hardly suitable for action or anything moving for that matter... so I would respectfully not define it as a null point..

Opusofid wrote:.

Well the viewfinder in my opion is a null point, you have a 2.5" oneon the back of the camera it called liveview. I find that I canhandhold my 50-200mm @ 200mm @ 1/25 and get great pictures that is atestament to the IS and dust well I had the E-500 before I bought theE-510 and for a year I never had a dust issue and I changes lens inall kinds of places from windy outside to dark draftless gyms andnever had to clean the sensor. the colors are great the standardmodes on the top dial will get you started, eg. you want to shootsports the little running man on top of the dial is a good startingpoint. You want sunsets then scene mode and sunset you have greatcolor and deep reds and orange. Fireworks it's there and plenty ofroom for you to grow.

This is just my viewof a great camera.Alan AlexanderOlympus user and Proud owner.'If all else fails backup five yards and punt'..

Llumi wrote:.

True, but Lifeview is hardly suitable for action or anything movingfor that matter.

While this is a valid argument I do not think a beginning photographer would want to use manual focussing when shooting action anyway...

From what I have seen I would not define Lifeview useful for AF anything that moves as well... only static objects...

You would choose the D40 if you wanted ultimate APS C noise performance and a larger finder. It isnt particularly feature rich, but a good learning tool, lenses are more limited due to AF motor not in body..

You would choose the 510 for it's featureset liveview, sensor cleaning, pixel mapping, IS, best kit lenses and optically good accessory lenses. The finder is small but very usable, the noise is inferior to D40 but very good to 800 (like most APS C too even the canon 400D). iso1600 is usually a small percentage of shooting. Olys have access to better ultra wide angle optics..

Liveview's mainly a benefit to macro or slow shooting off a tripod/ or stationary subjects, but it is worth having. IS is worth it for versatility in shooting..

Im a bit stuck for adding to D40 because it's so feature slim, but it should be cheaper to buy, thats a plusRiley.

I like to think the bs can never be higher than the ah..

IMO the D40x is somewhat of a real question mark in the Nikon lineup. Compared to the D40 what more do you get? 10MP which most people have no real need for unless your doing a good amount of cropping or blowing images up pretty large. And 3fps instead of 2.5fps compared to the D40. Thats it. If looking into Nikon I would say the only real two cameras in the consumer line worth looking at the the D40 and D80..

As far as what the D40 is missing as far as real "useful" features are concerned. No exposure/white balance bracketing, no DoF preview, only 1/3EV steps, and a lack of as many hard buttons found on higher end models. Not many will truly miss bracketing when you consider the cost of the D40. DoF preview is something I really wish it had. The lack of hard buttons makes it a little slower to work with for those that know what they are doing and know their camera so well they don't have to look to see what they are pressing. But you can still customize a button to do ISO or WB.

Yes it might take a tad longer to do then a hard button, but the camera sure does look less intimidating without buttons all over the place..

As far as the lenses with AF motors are concerned. Obviously this is a problem for those that do not want to manually focus and have an older lens collection. But it appears, at least to me, that Nikon is moving in the direction of AF in the lens like Canon. Here is a list I found over at the Nikonian forums of compatible lenses thus far;.

LAST EDITED ON 28-Jun-07 AT 08:40 AM (GMT 1).

List of current compatible AF-Lenses for the D40/D40X:.

Nikkor:AF-S DX 12-24mm 4.0G ED-IFAF-S 17-35mm 2.8D ED-IFAF-S DX 17-55mm 2.8G ED-IFAF-S DX 18-55mm 3.5-5.6GAF-S DX 18-70mm 3.5-4.5G ED-IFAF-S DX 18-135mm 3.5-5.6 ED-IFAF-S VR DX 18-200mm 3.5-5.6G IF-EDAF-S 24-85mm 3.5-4.5G IF-EDAF-S VR 24-120mm 3.5-5.6G ED-IFAF-S 28-70mm 2,8 IF-EDAF-S DX 55-200mm 4-5.6G EDAF-S VR 55200mm 45.6G IF-EDAF-S VR 70-200mm 2.8G ED-IFAF-S VR 70-300mm 4.5-5.6GAF-S 80-200mm 2.8 ED-IFAF-S VR 105mm 2.8GAF-S VR 200mm 2.0G ED-IFAF-S VR 200-400mm 4.0G ED-IFAF-I 300mm 2.8D IF-EDAF-S 300mm 2.8D IF-EDAF-S 300mm 4.0D ED-IFAF-S VR 300mm 2.8 ED-IFAF-I 400mm 2.8 D IF-EDAF-S 400mm 2.8D ED-IFAF-I 500mm 4.0D IF-EDAF-S 500mm 4.0D ED-IFAF-I 600mm 4.0D IF-EDAF-S 600mm 4.0D ED-IF.

Sigma:10-20mm 4-5.6 EX DC HSM12-24mm 4.5-5.6 EX DG HSM14mm 2.8 EX17-35mm 2.8-4.0 EX DG18-50mm 3.5-5.6 DC HSM New30mm 1.4 DC50-500mm 4.0-6.3 EX DG50-150mm 2.8 EX DC HSM55-200mm 4-5.6 DC HSM New70-200mm 2,8 EX DG Makro80-200mm 2.8 EX DG Makro80-400mm 4-5.6 EX OS100-300mm 4.0 EX DG120-300mm 2.8 EX DG150mm 2.8 EX DG MAKRO180mm 3.5 EX DG MAKRO300mm 2.8 EX DG APO HSM300-800mm 5.6 EX DG APO500mm 4.5 EX DG HSM APO800mm 5.6 EX DG APOSigma has also released their own list of compatible lenses..

I'm sure more and more will be coming to market. Remeber the D40, D40x, and D80 are still relatively new in the market. The fact tht they have been so popular makes me believe in greater that they will continue to bring more and more lenses to this lineup..

Me personally. I'd rather buy a slightly used/refurbished D80 from B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/.../home?O=productList&A=buyUsed&Q=449061) then the 510. If you check that link you will see that they those are said to be in very good condition and B&H has a reputation of understating the quality of their products even, so I'd expect them to look as new as buying new. The price of purchasing one of those bodies is the same price a new 510 goes for from B&H...

Rriley wrote:.

You would choose the D40 if you wanted ultimate APS C noiseperformance and a larger finder. It isnt particularly feature rich,but a good learning tool, lenses are more limited due to AF motor notin body..

The D40 is a real cute package but the lens issues, lack of top LCD and features break the deal. In the same price range, the K100D or K100D Special gives you the same size and big beautiful viewfinder, but the AS and other features the D40 misses. It also gives better high ISO performance. The K100D Special will also work with the new SDM lenses and have the AS / sensor cleaner of the K10D...

Actually, here in Holland the D 40X + 18-55/55-200 VR is selling for roughly the same price as the e510... (actually 100 euro more)...

Idream wrote:.

Actually, here in Holland the D 40X + 18-55/55-200 VR is selling forroughly the same price as the e510... (actually 100 euro more)..

Interesting. The D40X is cheaper here in the States as far as I've seen. But I still think it is to expensive compared to what you get with the D40 or even spending a little more for the D80...

K1000Photographer wrote:.

The D40 is a real cute package but the lens issues, lack of top LCDand features break the deal. In the same price range, the K100D orK100D Special gives you the same size and big beautiful viewfinder,but the AS and other features the D40 misses. It also gives betterhigh ISO performance. The K100D Special will also work with the newSDM lenses and have the AS / sensor cleaner of the K10D..

You say "cute" as if you discount the D40 from being a real camera. Honestly I don't care if it is cute or not. It is comfortable and performs great for a lot of people. Even people with much better cameras mention how often they use there D40 over the others..

If I could wait to see how Pentax's new SDM lenses perform and see how their longer glass lineup matures I would also wait it out. If you can't wait though you can't deny the abilities of the D40 and the obvious upgrade path to the D80 or D200..

I may eventually end up going with Pentax in a years time. Right now without real data I still feel as if your going out on the ledge with Pentax. That is of course if you require longer lenses. If not then Pentax has everything you need right now for a great price...

JG30 wrote:.

K1000Photographer wrote:.

The D40 is a real cute package but the lens issues, lack of top LCDand features break the deal. In the same price range, the K100D orK100D Special gives you the same size and big beautiful viewfinder,but the AS and other features the D40 misses. It also gives betterhigh ISO performance. The K100D Special will also work with the newSDM lenses and have the AS / sensor cleaner of the K10D..

You say "cute" as if you discount the D40 from being a real camera.Honestly I don't care if it is cute or not. It is comfortable andperforms great for a lot of people. Even people with much bettercameras mention how often they use there D40 over the others..

If I could wait to see how Pentax's new SDM lenses perform and seehow their longer glass lineup matures I would also wait it out. Ifyou can't wait though you can't deny the abilities of the D40 and theobvious upgrade path to the D80 or D200..

I may eventually end up going with Pentax in a years time. Right nowwithout real data I still feel as if your going out on the ledge withPentax. That is of course if you require longer lenses. If not thenPentax has everything you need right now for a great price..

The K100D special may be out next month, so the wait is not that long..

Yes, the D40 is a real camera but the K100D has more than 3 times the focus points, AS, a top LCD panel, other features and will work with 30 years of PK mount lenses. The Special will add the SDM capabilities and better AS..

Compared to the K100D, the D40 is quite stripped. You do not gain anything in photo quality but give up a lot of features...

Well some things to keep in mind. the Pentax site says the K100D Special kit will cost $599. That is a good deal more then the current deal you can get the K100D for. Also more then the current price of the D40. Also the SDM DA* lenses are not going to be cheap. Also the ones with any real reach to them are not projected to come out until September.

I'm curious to see how much they will end up costing as well..

Yes if you have the extra cash, the current K100D doesn't fit your needs, you can wait, and you like the camera then of course wait to see how it plays out. I personally decided that I'll get something now and in the next 6 months assess where the different companies are and see if I should switch over. I don't feel like waiting any longer though..

You know (as you commented in most of my threads) that I really like both the D40 and K100D. I personally don't think either is a wrong choice. But there just is no real data out yet on the new products coming from Pentax. We don't even know for sure what the pricing will be on the new lenses. What if you get into a Pentax camera because you like the new line of lenses they are coming out with (the ones that actually compete well with the competition) and then realize they are to pricey. Kind of defeats the purpose of buying with a budget in mind.



I'd like to hear how the D40 is so feature stripped. Yes most everyone knows about only AF with certain lenses (which I listed already). We know about the lack of bracketing (which can be worked around if need be). We know about the lack of DoF preview (something I will admit they should have included). And we know about the fact that it does not have built in vibration reduction and instead puts it in the lenses (something that is debated a lot around here and there are two sides to this argument, both valid). What else does the D40 lack that is really of any importance? A top LCD? That is personal preference, some don't actually like it and many models don't have it today.

I can't put any validity into the tests I've seen but the Pentax solution seems to be rather mediocre at best. Only 3 AF points? Yes something I also think they should have increased, but there are once again workaround for any situation that may require more and, according to reviews, the 3 points works very well..

The D40 can bring extended battery life (many more photos in one charge), a much larger buffer (to fire off unlimited JPEGS), a brighter viewfinder (don't believe it go hold both for a few hours. I did and it is noticeable), lighter (one of the lightest on the market), IMO the best ergonomics (K100D is not bad, the D40 is just superb), some of the best low light performance on the market, and most important to me a good range of tele-zoom lenses (saw what you want about the limited lineup but there is already plenty to fill anyones needs). And although you want to discount the IQ as being the same you have to acknowledge that the reviews have said the D40 is most likely the best 6MP camera as far as IQ goes. I agree though that it is a null point as they all look identical to 99% of the people in the world. I personally even like the Pentax more natural out of the box color tones myself..

This is to time consuming. This D40 & K100D debate is a never ending one. Honestly I only brought it up because the D40 or D80 makes much more sense then the D40x IMO. If the poster was considering the Oly 510 then I would tell him to look at both the D80 and the K10D, not the K100D or the D40x...

Missing from D40 areinternal motor, making a LOT of affordable lenses incompatibleexposure bracketing?ISO and WB only available through the menu settingsmissing mirror lock up.

RAW software as with Oly apparently needs to be purchased, which in itself is a disturbing trendRiley.

I like to think the bs can never be higher than the ah..

Rriley wrote:.

Missing from D40 areinternal motor, making a LOT of affordable lenses incompatibleexposure bracketing?ISO and WB only available through the menu settingsmissing mirror lock upRAW software as with Oly apparently needs to be purchased, which initself is a disturbing trendRiley.

I like to think the bs can never be higher than the ah.

I included the first 4 of those things already. The ISO or WB can be custom set to a button as I also mentioned so that sort of solves that "issue"..

If you want to use old lenses then honestly, buy a D50. Personally I find most of the offerings (see the many I listed above) decently priced, especially compared to the competition. Take away VR lenses and there are PLENTY of affordable options. After sitting down and looking at it, this whole no motor thing is blown WAY out of proportion. When will the selection of lenses be enough to satisfy people? Do we really need 10 different lenses overlapping the same area? Tell me, how many lenses has Nikon come out with since the introduction of the D40(x) & D80 that don't function properly on the D40? The future is obviously going towards AF in the lens for Nikon. The D40 will be something that will last and grow during that time..

I forgot the mirror lock up. And yes Capture NX is the Nikon software that processes RAW and only comes as a trial. Personally from using it I don't think it is worth the money. Nice but to damn slow. There are apparently plenty of other free options..

So again, instead of people repeating the features I've already listed, much of which are rather pointless and have simple manual work around, what did I miss that the D40 lacks? I have a feeling there is nothing else it lacks and people just like to complain about a few rather useless features because it is simply human nature to complain. If we want to play that game we could be here all night talking about features that each camera does not have...

The really big minus of the Nikon is the lack of in-camera Vibration Reduction and no dust feature... I really wonder if that weights up against the merrits of this camera...

Llumi wrote:.

The really big minus of the Nikon is the lack of in-camera VibrationReduction and no dust feature... I really wonder if that weights upagainst the merrits of this camera..

In-camera VR - or the lack of it - is not *that* much of a problem, because even the kit telezoom has VR. The lack of a working sensor dust buster is, on the other hand, a HUGE concern if you plan on changing lenses - and by the sound of it, you do. My fiance has a D70 and always has problems with sensor dust, even though she knows how to properly change lenses, as she is a learned photojournalist. I have an E-1, which has a similar sensor dust buster as the E-510, and have never had to get the sensor cleaned in more than two years...

I never used the RAW software that came with my camera. If I shot RAW, I used ACR with PS or PSE..

Still, When I keep hearing "manual workarounds" used to describe using the D40, it does not inspire me to want to use one. I have, by the way and a basic operation such as changing the aperture is clunky in comparison to a non crippled camera..

The downside of the K100D variants is the smaller buffer but most photogs are not the pray and spray variety. The added weight may be an issue but do you want to get rid of the stainless frame or AS? The rest of the added weight comes from the AA compatability. For some that is a great advantage...