Hey I have that camera. I also just got a D80 and I want to rip my hair out while trying to get a picture that looks right..

I would love to have all the time in the world to spend all day playing around with it, but unfortunately i'm not a photographer and I have a profession and a family to take care of...

The reason why it SEEMS complicated is that too many people are using a new, highly automated camera to try to learn the basics..

Nothing will replace good understanding of basic theory that has remained unchanged for many decades, and a camera that has manual control of aperture, shutter speed and focus (and I mean real control, not the two or three electronic choices offered by so many consumer digicams)..

Learn on one of these, and you can operate any camera put in front of you with minimal frustration...

Look at it this way, the harder it is to get a beautiful photo, the more you'll appreciate it when you finally get there. It'll happen, cause it happened to me... once!.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window..

More expensive camera - more features - more compicated: more reading, testing needed to get good image..

DSLR doesn't make good images automaticly. It does it only if default settings match ligh conditions. Certain conditions require diaphragm/shutter understanding + tripod,strong flash,Circular Polarizing Filter, Neutral Density Grad filters..

If person is using camera just for shapshots - PS (point and shot) camera should be enough.http://www.stan-pustylnik.smugmug.com..

Mikishots wrote:.

The reason why it SEEMS complicated is that too many people are usinga new, highly automated camera to try to learn the basics..

Nothing will replace good understanding of basic theory that hasremained unchanged for many decades, and a camera that has manualcontrol of aperture, shutter speed and focus (and I mean realcontrol, not the two or three electronic choices offered by so manyconsumer digicams)..

Learn on one of these, and you can operate any camera put in front ofyou with minimal frustration..

It's the other way around. I have a reasonable amount of camera and darkroom experience going back to the days of Royal Ortho. I can usually beat a dSLR into submission because it *can* be operated manually but the P&S cameras all have their own weirdnesses and you can't stop them from doing it. I really have no idea what's going to happen when I press the shutter on my Panasonic DMC-LZ3 (may it's bones be ground to dust), especially because I can't see what's on it's miserable screen, but it's usually not good..

There is no way to learn the basics on one of these things and I can appreciate how the manual can confuse a new user..

Leonard Migliore..

It seems to me it's not learning how to shoot a photo that makes things difficult for them; it's learning to use a complicated camera that does. And the two are not the same thing..

To simplify things and to learn to photograph, shoot in manual mode and forget about most of the features. If it has to be in some kind of auto mode, use aperture priority..

It appears many people believe they should learn to photograph with a P&S first. But there's not much you can do with that kind of camera. I suggest jump right in and get a SLR (like I did) or DSLR and start shooting in manual mode..

Mikishots wrote:.

The reason why it SEEMS complicated is that too many people are usinga new, highly automated camera to try to learn the basics..

Nothing will replace good understanding of basic theory that hasremained unchanged for many decades, and a camera that has manualcontrol of aperture, shutter speed and focus (and I mean realcontrol, not the two or three electronic choices offered by so manyconsumer digicams)..

Learn on one of these, and you can operate any camera put in front ofyou with minimal frustration...

I dont think so... I started with a film camera, where also, I had the same issue. The basic point I see is that whether you know the basics. If you have it in you, you will find at ease with any camera, may be the time may vary a little, but I dont think anybody will complain if you can get more out of the camera by doing so. (You can check my blog on how I progressed).

On the contrary, new cameras have better Auto mode which coupled with immedite feedback on LCD screen will let even a novice get good pictures compare to the film timehttp://budding-nature-photographer.blogspot.com/..

Get it right most of the time that is. The little Canon Ixus I use is one of those which hardly ever gets the exposure wrong, and for a pocket camera with fiddly little controls it is extremely important that it does get it right!.

The 'prosumer' or 'bridge' camera Fuji 9100/9600 that I use requires the use of +/- EV to get tricky lighting situations right ie. when the different metering modes don't go far enough. But it's easy to see what is happening because the preview image is live and instantly responds to the +/-EV settings. (button and a dial.).

The KM 5D DSLR - now when that camera gets it right the results are really nice, but it requires just as much help as the Fuji in tricky lighting and has the disadvantage of lacking live preview. So... set the appropriate metering mode, use one's experience to shift the metering darker or lighter for the next shot, take the shot, check on the LCD, alter settings for the next one or set bracketing. That is for tricky shots like backlit landscapes and pictures with extremes of contrast. For shots in normal conditions, it will work very nicely in Aperture priority mode or often full Auto all on it's own..

I know someone with a Nkion D40 and whilst that camera makes a better effort at metering difficult lighting than say my KM, it often needs to be improved on for the next shot..

What I'm trying to say is that it is unreasonable to expect to P&S in difficult lighting conditions. Don't go crazy reading manuals. Use your brain to work out which of the metering modes may be most appropriate to the scene, and learn how to apply simple +/- EV values. Make the next picture darker by scrolling to the Left, brighter to the Right. And don't burn out the highlights because it is much easier to bring up any details from the shadows later should it be necessary..

Apply that to any camera, especially if you are still to become familiar with it, and you won't have such a difficult time. Set Aperture Priority. Find out how to change metering modes and how to use +/- EV for the next shot if you are not happy with the first one. Later you'll be able to learn how to spot meter the correct part of the subject so that the rest of it is the best possible compromise..

John.Please visit me at:http://www.pbase.com/johnfr/backtothebridgehttp://www.pbase.com/johnfr..

Some cameras do get it right but the people who write the instruction manuals ought to think about the people reading them. My experience is that the instruction manuals cover everything but in such a strange order and in such a weird way that we all have problems with them..

Then they add to the confusion by not bothering with an index..

Luckily some of them publish them as PDF's as well and so the thing can be sorted out using the "Search" tool but it takes a while..

And, why, oh why don't the people who write the advertisements - who seem to have spoken English from childhood - write the manuals? Not thinking of any one firm but it would help a lot..

Regards, David..

My first decent camera was a Pentax ME super, which took about two minutes to figure out in it's entirety. Modern DSLRs have so many features that it is difficult to take it all in. However, in practice, you don't need to take it all in if you don't want to..

I got a K100D a few months ago and felt initially overwhelmed. Following some good advice from people on dpreview I stuck the mode dial on aperture priority and, hey presto, it's just like using the ME super, so I could concentrate on taking photos and getting used to handling the camera. Having got to grips with that I've started playing with the other features (the dynamic autofocus tracking is handy for snapping birds in flight) but the key thing, IMO, is not to try and take in too much at once. Just because a camera has a custom setting hidden 17 menu sublevels down for taking photos of asteroids by candlelight doesn't mean you have to use it!Mike..

That the son of one of the Directors, who once got the equivalent of a GCSE grade C in English, be given the job of translating all of their manuals. The results are uniformly horrible, and often comic..

David Hughes wrote:....

And, why, oh why don't the people who write the advertisements - whoseem to have spoken English from childhood - write the manuals? Notthinking of any one firm but it would help a lot...

Leonard Migliore wrote:.

The P&S cameras all have their own weirdnesses and youcan't stop them from doing it..

Sure you can..

I've been into digital for about five years now and always use P Mode, a fully automatic mode actually, which lets me tweak a few settings such as Exposure Compensation and White Balance..

You can get control over a compact digital camera by taking time to understand some of it's features, and changing them to get optimal results. For example, I always switch my digital cameras (I've had nine) to single area focus; continuous autofocus or the equivalent that is usually on by default gets shut off immediately..

Also, one of the most important things using a digital camera is understanding how to lock exposure and focus correctly with the two-step shutter release button. And yes, how to do this is in every digital camera manual..

There is no way to learn the basics on one of these things and I canappreciate how the manual can confuse a new user..

I agree the manual is confusing, even overwhelming at first. But reading about the very basic functions, with camera in hand, is well-worth it. After the basic functions are grasped, read about other features if and as needed..

If a person is not willing to read the manual, or ask someone for help, there are still plenty of film cameras on the market..

As an aside, my daughter uses a Canon A510; doesn't know a hill of beans about digital photography and uses only scene modes,. She has consistently gotten terrific, well exposed and composed family snapshots..

Gail ~ http://www.pbase.com/gailbMy digital camera BLOGs: Pany TZ3, Canon SD700 & S2, Nikon 5400http://www.digicamhelp.com/camera-logs/index.php..

That's what I'm saying - if one tries to learn the basics on these cameras, the manual ain't gonna help..

THAT'S why it seems confusing for so many..

Leonard Migliore wrote:.

Mikishots wrote:.

The reason why it SEEMS complicated is that too many people are usinga new, highly automated camera to try to learn the basics..

Nothing will replace good understanding of basic theory that hasremained unchanged for many decades, and a camera that has manualcontrol of aperture, shutter speed and focus (and I mean realcontrol, not the two or three electronic choices offered by so manyconsumer digicams)..

Learn on one of these, and you can operate any camera put in front ofyou with minimal frustration..

It's the other way around. I have a reasonable amount of camera anddarkroom experience going back to the days of Royal Ortho. I canusually beat a dSLR into submission because it *can* be operatedmanually but the P&S cameras all have their own weirdnesses and youcan't stop them from doing it. I really have no idea what's going tohappen when I press the shutter on my Panasonic DMC-LZ3 (may itsbones be ground to dust), especially because I can't see what's onits miserable screen, but it's usually not good..

There is no way to learn the basics on one of these things and I canappreciate how the manual can confuse a new user..

Leonard Migliore..

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know anything .

The best way to learn is to go out and try yourself. Beats all the books any day..

Don't get discouraged - all beginnings are difficult, but it's a fun world out there..

Becksi.

BAK wrote:.

For those of you new to photography and trying to understand it...you have my sympathies..

When you think this is cimplicated, you are right..

I just spent a couple of hours with the instruction book for a FujiS700, about a $250 camera, and I can understand why the camera'sowner invited me for dinner, if I'd try to explain the camera to her..

Good luck trying to understand your new camera. It's a lot harderthan dealing with a film camera a few years ago,..

BAK..

Mike said:.

Just because a camera has a custom setting hidden 17 menu sublevels down for taking photos of asteroids by candlelight doesn't mean you have to use it!.

Damn, I knew there was something missing on this heap of s***!..

I'm in the same boat as to being confused by the dSLR world. The auto settings frustrate me because they get close but not quite what I was wanting. It looks good on the little LCD camera screen until I download it. Then I go...blah.

I was into 35mm film, then had kids and went P&S then went P&S digital. Now, I am coming back to SLR with my dSLR..

I think my personal error was coming into the dSLR expecting to turn out pics like I use to with my 35mm film. I need to step back and wait some more until I re-learn this dSLR stuff..

My personal mantra..."Patience young one...".

Cheers,Mike..

Is it because of focus, detail sharpness, color tones? What's wrong?.

I wish only that my Minolta 7D DSLR will last long..... .

Http://www.stan-pustylnik.smugmug.com..

To get started with digital, you need only know a little about basic photography..

Either put the camera in full-auto-everything mode or take it off full-auto and learn how to make your desired exposure and focus settings with your digital camera..

You can explore the fancy but rarely used digital features at your leisure, but getting started with the basics is easy..

It also helps to have a modicum of computer knowledge when it comes time to move the images from camera to computer, but that is beyond the scope of the thread's first message.Galleries: http://www.dheller.net..

Don't make the mistake in thinking she really wants to learn the camera from you...

Mike, one thing that might work is to just try to get the most 35mm-like controls activated..

Set sharpness to plus on, leave contrst and saturation alone, ignore all sizes except highest quality JPEG....

I spent way too long trying to understand the instruction book of my first digital camera..

BAK..

I was just trying to do too much too quickly for a few days... trying to get to grips with histograms, exposure compensation, different metering modes, fill-in flash, different autofocus modes and image quality settings in one fell swoop. The camera itself is fine and the kit lens delivers very sharp pictures..

BAK's comment is spot on. In the end I choose some middling settings for contrast, saturation etc; set highest-quality JPEG; then I used Av mode which I was very used to; and used the camera like my old ME super and didn't worry about all the extra facilities until I was happy handling it. Now each time I take it out for a play I try one new thing from the instruction book..

Best wishesMike..

DavidMaven wrote:.

To get started with digital, you need only know a little about basicphotography..

I'm glad that I'M not the one who suggested that BAK doesn't even "know a little about basic photography". .

Or maybe you meant that you must know ONLY a little about basic photography, that knowing more than a little or knowing something beyond basic photography is what makes the manuals inscrutable?.

BAK normally hangs out over in the Pro forum, and I suppose that it's understandable that he's not as well-known here in the Beginner forum. So, this is from his web site:.

"BAK's background in photography.

"Brian Kilgore became seriously interested in photography in grade seven, shot his first magazine cover, for the Toronto Board of Trade Journal, in grade 10, and turned professional at 15, shooting weddings and newspaper photographs. Weddings and portraiture helped put him through university and then he joined Thomson Newspapers and then Maclean-Hunter Publishing as a journalist, before entering the public relations business. Since establishing his own communications consultancy in 1986, he has photographed men, women, children, cows and calves, scenery, machines, buildings, a lot of cheese, and more, for clients in Europe, South Africa, Canada and the United States.".

BAK's point is that even for a professional photographer with decades of photographic experienceincluding digitalthe manuals that come with today's digicams can be difficult to digest...

Ahhh...don't make the mistake in thinking she really doesn't want to learn the camera .

Sandy.

Clint Sanders wrote:.

Don't make the mistake in thinking she really wants to learn thecamera from you...

This thread demonstrates why I feel sorry for people to write and say something like "I'm new to photography, and I'm getting ready to buy my first dslr. Which one should I buy? I am going to Europe (or Africa, or wherever) in two weeks and I want to take professional-quality photos." I feel certain those folks ultimately are disappointed with both their purchase and their trip..

Jerryhttp://jchoate.zenfolio.com/..

I read various books on photography and tend to work in one area at a time..

First and foremost though, for those getting their first camera' is to understand all of the buttons and what they do..

Then go from there, one step at a time..

But most of all, don't get frustrated. Trial and error is a great teacher..

Have fun. .

Melissa.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

Http://www.flickr.com/photos/melissa926http://picasaweb.google.com/michiganmelissa..

Jchoate wrote:.

This thread demonstrates why I feel sorry for people to write and saysomething like "I'm new to photography, and I'm getting ready to buymy first dslr. Which one should I buy? I am going to Europe (orAfrica, or wherever) in two weeks and I want to takeprofessional-quality photos." I feel certain those folks ultimatelyare disappointed with both their purchase and their trip..

How true and I'd like a fiver for every time I've suggested they get a decent P&S. Trouble is dSLR's are over sold: I can't imagine a driving school with a fleet of Lambo's but this seems to be a common theme here..

OTOH, it's very hard to leave the lens cap on with a dSLR....

Regards, David..