The lcd screen on compact cameras show the picture you are about to take..

The DsSLR does not, the lcd screean is mainly for menues, but will display the picture after you have taken it, as a genaral rule, I had a Nikon 8800 that showed the picture before taking it, My D80 does not..

Insidently if you want to see the pic before you take it, then the NIKON 8800 is a cracking cameraMike Rudge..

MikeThanks for the suggestions but I do want the ability to switch out lenses.Thanks for the quick answer though...

Yes. As I understand it there are multiple reasons for that:1) Viewfinder mirror blocks the sensor..

2) even when it doesn't (lock-up mode) typical DSLR sensor can't transmit data fast enough for live view..

Also, that means forget movie mode.  .

But, for letting those two rather gimmicky features go, you get really good sensor (no P&S one is even close, and would not be), and excellent viewfinder (ok, really good EVF can theoretically get close or better. But there are no such EVF yet. ).

Although newer Olympuses (or was that Pentax? ) do solve both of these problems. But no movie mode anyway...

SLR is Single Lens Reflex, which means that there is a mirror in the light path which reflects the image up to the viewfinder. When you press the shutter, the mirror flips up (usually it is up) and the mechanical shutter opens. For the first time in the whole process, light now hits the sensor. So *by definition* an SLR can't show a preview on the LCD, because no light is reaching the sensor when you are composing the image..

Definitions were made to be broken, of course, and a very small number of digital SLRs have design features which do allow the sensor to be used to pass a preview to the LCD. It is best regarded as an emerging technology (cue irate posts from Oly owners), with just two Canons (one a specialist astrophotography camera and one a pro camera costing thousands) and no Nikon DSLRs offering this...

Thanks to everyone. I think I am still going tp pick up the Nikon D40x for my safari trip in November. I think it will take me that long to learn how to use everything and get acquainted with it...

If you have the finance, the best choice would be the D80, and the 18_200 VR lens, and then you will get some realy crisp shots.trust me, I'm a mechanic!.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

Mike Rudge..

Having just swapped from a prosumer with live view (KM A200) to DSLR - Samsung GX-10 I can honestly say that I don't miss Live View..

I have to admit this is contrary to my original thoughts before buying the DSLR..

Simon.

Http://www.landscapephotographyuk.com/.

North Wales photographs - Snowdonia & Anglesey..

Interesting notion, because this is one of the things I believe I will be missing when I go dSLRI hope to end up like you and liking it .

Simonkit wrote:.

Having just swapped from a prosumer with live view (KM A200) to DSLR- Samsung GX-10 I can honestly say that I don't miss Live View..

I have to admit this is contrary to my original thoughts beforebuying the DSLR..

Simon.

Http://www.landscapephotographyuk.com/.

North Wales photographs - Snowdonia & Anglesey..

Hi,.

Why don't you go for Olympus E 510. Its a DSLR with Live View function. I've just bought one and it's wonderful.Harish..

I've read that the new Olympus which doesn't use a dedicated sensor for the live view but instead does tricks with the mirror is a bit slower than regular DSLR's which may impact it's use for action photography. Based on the description of how it worked, it seems the wear on the shutter and mirror mechanisms is doubled or tripled..

In the past I've only used cameras either both viewfinder and LCD live view or just live view. Since getting my 400D I find myself getting more used to the viewfinder and actually getting better compositions because of it..

I'm sure I will miss the LCD live view is when I'm trying to shoot something that requires the camera to be in a position that is not convenient or posible to look thru the view finder like overhead shots, but those are pretty infrequent for me...

One of the main benefits of Live View I'm my opinion, having owned a KM A200, was the ability to articulate the LCD to enable self portraits & shots in differing angles/situations..

Unfortunately OLY decided to fix the LCD on the E410/510 & personally I see this as a backward step over the E330, it reduces the usefulness of Live-view. I guess the articulated screen may return with the E1 replacement so if Live View is important it may be worth waiting until then.

Simon.

Http://www.landscapephotographyuk.com/.

North Wales photographs - Snowdonia & Anglesey..

The real reason there is no live preview, is that a live preview would make the sensor active all the time - heating it up and creating noise..

Also, the sensor would have to be 'cleared' before the now noisier shot is to be taken, thus adding lag to the shutter release. (This has gotten a lot better in P&S cameras).

I would suspect the upcoming live previews in DSLRs use a seperate sensor that is located where the view finder view-screen is located, or something similar..

While the view-angle features of live-preview are missed, the view-finder has real-life resolution with the added ability of being able to see it when it is bright out...

See Olympus DSLRs or Panasonic, Canon (pro) and I think Leica.The Olympus 330, 410, 510, and the soon to be available E-3..

All have the LCD Live view which you can use to compose you image.Famous Last Words: 'HOLD MY BEER....AND WATCH THIS'.

Http://www.flickr.com/photos/plucknbach/..

Clint Sanders wrote:.

I would suspect the upcoming live previews in DSLRs use a seperatesensor that is located where the view finder view-screen is located,or something similar..

That might be it. We don't need godawful number of MPs for this second sensor, since even good cam LCD doesn't use those anyway. So it could be small and relatively cheap, yet still high-quality..

There's one thing for EVF. It shows you exposure (Ok, fakes exposure when it can), which may be more intuitive than just meter reading...

Here you go....

Http://olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/cpg_digital_slr.aspFamous Last Words: 'HOLD MY BEER....AND WATCH THIS'.

Http://www.flickr.com/photos/plucknbach/..

A DSLR not using the sensor for framing also means there is no delay after pressing shutter release..

Using the capture sensor to show live image on the LCD means the sensor has to be shut down and the charge on it dissipated before it can be powered up again for clean image capture..

DSLRs (or at least most) don't use the capture sensor for that. After each picture is taken, it's ready for another picture, so there is no such delay in a DSLR. That's why sports photographers use DSLRs..

DSLR sensors are capable transmitting data fast enough (they are just like P&S sensors, only bigger), but the cameras are purposefully designed and programmed to not do that, excepting for a few new models that, I understand, use a *separate* sensor for the live view..

And a live image on the rear LCD is useless in bright sunlight, so optical framing systems will always be important to serious photographers who shoot outdoors..

Personally, I dont' need a low-res movie mode on my still camera. If I want to record low-res movies, my cell phone already has a (just as useless) movie mode like P&S cameras. 99.999 percent of home movies are miserable to watch, anyway, because of poor production value, poor movie making skills, and subjects who never know what to do or say when being recorded..

At least P&S still cameras preserve only an instant of a badly designed/composed/produced scene. Home movies preserve hours of such miserable scenes, with miserable audio too..

Ablack wrote:.

Yes. As I understand it there are multiple reasons for that:1) Viewfinder mirror blocks the sensor.2) even when it doesn't (lock-up mode) typical DSLR sensor can'ttransmit data fast enough for live view..

Also, that means forget movie mode.  .

But, for letting those two rather gimmicky features go, you getreally good sensor (no P&S one is even close, and would not be), andexcellent viewfinder (ok, really good EVF can theoretically get closeor better. But there are no such EVF yet. ).

Although newer Olympuses (or was that Pentax? ) do solve both ofthese problems. But no movie mode anyway..

Galleries: http://www.dheller.net/photo/..

You will miss the Live View when you are doing macro focusing and when you are doing long range shots. I took Fireworks shots on the 4th and I could not have done it where I was without losing a bunch of shots without Live View..

It allowed me to focus and be set up before the show started..

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

Olympus E-500, Olympus E-510..

Yes, the exposure preview is why I like it so much. Its of cause because I am new to photography (even with P&S I got my first camera ever 2 years ago)..

The lack of exposure preview in the optical viewfinder is was I will be missing. That would cause me make a lot of test shots to get the right combinations for proper exposure..

Ablack wrote:.

Clint Sanders wrote:.

I would suspect the upcoming live previews in DSLRs use a seperatesensor that is located where the view finder view-screen is located,or something similar..

That might be it. We don't need godawful number of MPs for thissecond sensor, since even good cam LCD doesn't use those anyway. Soit could be small and relatively cheap, yet still high-quality..

There's one thing for EVF. It shows you exposure (Ok, fakes exposurewhen it can), which may be more intuitive than just meter reading...

To davisesq212....

These two guys are slightly confused. Normally when somebody uses the words "all", "never", "always", etc, they are just being provocative. .

Ablack wrote:.

Yes. As I understand it there are multiple reasons for that:1) Viewfinder mirror blocks the sensor..

2) even when it doesn't (lock-up mode) typical DSLR sensor can't transmit data > fast enough for live view..

He's right, but the flip side is the atypical dSLR sensor CAN transmit data fast enough for live view..

Also, that means forget movie mode. .

But, for letting those two rather gimmicky features go, you get really goodsensor (no P&S one is even close, and would not be), and excellent viewfinder.

(ok, really good EVF can theoretically get close or better. But there are no suchEVF yet. ).

I'll agree that movie mode is a gimmic, but live view is NOT a gimmic. It is the single most important advance in camera design in the past 15 years..

DavidMaven wrote:.

A DSLR not using the sensor for framing also means there is no delayafter pressing shutter release..

I think he forgot about the mirror that blocks the sensor. Somehow it has to be flipped out of the way, which seems to take about 50mm, minimum..

Using the capture sensor to show live image on the LCD means thesensor has to be shut down and the charge on it dissipated before itcan be powered up again for clean image capture..

I think he forgot about CMOS sensors, which, unlike CCD sensors, can flush the sensor quickly. But almost ANY sensor can be flushed during the time it takes a SLR mirror to flip out of the way, so this complaint is baseless..

DSLRs (or at least most) don't use the capture sensor for that. Aftereach picture is taken, it's ready for another picture, so there is nosuch delay in a DSLR. That's why sports photographers use DSLRs..

A recent and on-going paradigm shift has resulted in a few "bridge" cameras that combine the best features of compact cameras and professional cameras. Their success and specifications refute David's above paragraph..

Until they figured out how to (and why to) remove/defeat the mirror, there was no incentive for manufacturers to ask sensor designers to provide a live view output. Once this barrier was breached, it was apparently easy to do!.

DSLR sensors are capable transmitting data fast enough (they are justlike P&S sensors, only bigger), but the cameras are purposefullydesigned and programmed to not do that, excepting for a few newmodels that, I understand, use a *separate* sensor for the live view..

Only the first Oly live view dSLR had a separate sensor...and it had TWO live view modes. One used the primary sensor for live view...one used the secondary sensor for live view. All the rest use the primary sensor..

And a live image on the rear LCD is useless in bright sunlight, sooptical framing systems will always be important to seriousphotographers who shoot outdoors..

Some LCDs have better performance in bright light that others do. Not all are useless..

I agree with David's assessment of movie mode, but I shall delete it in this reply. It doesn't need to be hammered in, as some people really like it..

Back to "bridge" cameras. Some people think that "prosumer" and "bridge" are synonomous. I don't. This wikipedia article is typical:.

Http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_camera.

The authors say, "Prosumer or bridge or SLR-like cameras form a general group of higher-end live-preview cameras that physically resemble DSLRs and share with these some advanced features, but share with compacts the live-preview design and small sensor sizes." I'd remove "bridge" from that list, as it's really a different design...one that DOESN'T have a small sensor..

I've started a Bridge Blog (so far in it's infancy), to explain and chronicle these new cameras. Currently there are only 7 of them (by my count) and are listed at the top of the Blog:.

Http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/?cat=3.

Charlie DavisNikon 5700 & Sony R1HomePage: http://www.1derful.infoBridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/..

DavidMaven wrote:.

DSLR sensors are capable transmitting data fast enough (they are justlike P&S sensors, only bigger), but the cameras are purposefullydesigned and programmed to not do that, excepting for a few newmodels that, I understand, use a *separate* sensor for the live view..

I belive they are quite different. That CMOS vs CCD thing has to mean something, doesn't it?.

And you yourself ponted out that constant reading would degrade other sensor characteristics like lag, and very possible, noise. Heat is one of leading causes of noise, and working circuit may heat quite significantly. So, at a guess, transmission speed in dSLR is also lower, to generate less heat..

(IIRC, astrophotographers do use CCDs even in important equipment, but cool them to -40 C or even cryogenic.).

As for merits of home videos, - well, there's art, and there's everyday life... You know, one of documentary directors (I forgot the name) complained that when he wanted to find footage of everyday life in 30's, he almost couldn't... Pros just don't shoot that, they shoot big, important, exceptional things, not common ones. It may be all boring sillines now, but in 50 or 500 years that would be goldmine of knowledge (If it survives for so long, of course)..

Anyway, video is for video cameras!..

Chuxter wrote:.

I'll agree that movie mode is a gimmic, but live view is NOT agimmic. It is the single most important advance in camera design inthe past 15 years..

Sure, it is nice thing to have, but I don't quite get why you thing it is so important...

Ablack wrote:.

Chuxter wrote:.

I'll agree that movie mode is a gimmic, but live view is NOT agimmic. It is the single most important advance in camera design inthe past 15 years..

Sure, it is nice thing to have, but I don't quite get why you thingit is so important..

Well, you may be one of these people who don't "get it". .

Live View is significant because:.

1. It can, in varying degrees, actually show what the pic will look like.2. It can also show a LIVE histogram!3. It can "highlight" areas that are over/under exposed.4. It can overlay text information on the image, when it's wanted..

Most cameras that have "live view" don't have an EVF, so they are crippled. The full importance of Live View becomes more obvious when it's coupled with a good EVF. Yes, I understand that some people think "good EVF" is an oxymoron... .

Charlie DavisNikon 5700 & Sony R1HomePage: http://www.1derful.infoBridge Blog: http://www.here-ugo.com/BridgeBlog/..

Chuxter wrote:.

Live View is significant because:.

1. It can, in varying degrees, actually show what the pic will looklike..

It may, and it'sreally great. Unfortunately, it does not work well exactly when most needed. (unusual conditions like late dusk.).

2. It can also show a LIVE histogram!.

Yes, that's quite a reason too..

3. It can "highlight" areas that are over/under exposed..

As it understands it, anyway..

4. It can overlay text information on the image, when it's wanted..

??? If you mean on the shot that's not quite connected to live view. If you mean on the preview, well, I think, quite similar effect could be done optically, but it would be expensive and heavy..

Most cameras that have "live view" don't have an EVF, so they arecrippled. The full importance of Live View becomes more obvious whenit's coupled with a good EVF. Yes, I understand that some peoplethink "good EVF" is an oxymoron... .

You can make good EVF. But not yet...