You ask a lot of different things in one question..

(1) Camera type..

You need a camera with some manual control. That's Shutter and Aperture priority modes. Most cameras have them these days..

You don't know if you need macro, zoom or tele-zoom. You need to ask the people running the course. You can't just bolt this on to a P&S later, and it's potentially expensive with a DSLR..

(2) DSLR.

Any DSLR would do. The Nikon's have a good cash back offer at the moment, and the 18-55 lens is quite good compared with other kit lenses ( based on technical reviews, not experience )..

Bare in mind DSLRs are serious pieces of camera and not point and shoots. They certainly don't do well at parties !.

Ask the course if you really need this kind of kit..

(3) Post Processing Graphics Applications.

I use Cinepaint ( free ) and Gimp ( free ). They are not quite Photoshop, but they are free and they work well..

Cinepaint is at http://www.cinepaint.org.

Use cinepaint for RAW mode. Gimp for JPEGs..

I use Linux, but both are available on Windows..

On Linux there are several command line tools with rather sophisticated options, which I use rarely but they are there. They are all free, but I doubt you would use them..

For Fuji's I use a free application called s7raw, but only in a limited way..

For noise control I use NeatImage Pro, which is cheap and very effective with good control. There are many others options. NeatImage comes stand-alone and as a PhotoShop plugin..

(4) The Weather.

Cannot fix this for you ! .

This may be a problem if you get very wet weather and/or very humid weather. This is possibly a major issue for a DSLR where you have to change lenses. Weather resistant DSLRs are expensive - think K10D or D200. If you know any photographers in teh area you need to check this - a DSLR damaged by weather is an expensive toy, and you make it sound terrible ( is it really that bad ? )..

I live in Ireland, we get lots of rain. DSLR owners seem to manage fine. Just don't let it get wet, very cold or very hot..

In terms of exposure, gray clouds cause the same problem as very sunny ones - the camera will usually not automatically expose quite the way you want. While there is less light, outdoor shots are not usually a problem..

If you actually want to shoot in rain you need to talk to a professional camera shop for advice. I suspect this is expensive..

(5) Photographing Fire !.

Have not done this, but basically the problem sounds like an exposure issue. Your course should explain this to you. Very few ( if any ) cameras will expose a shot like this well without manual control by the user. There would also be an issue with white balance. Again something you should cover in the course..

All high contrast scenes and/or poorly lit scenes always require care..

Fire poses the particular problem that a flash will make things worse..

StephenG.

Fuji S9600Fuji S5200Fuji F30Fuji E900Canon A710ISPCLinuxOS..

Wait until the course has started and go there with an open mind. Spend as much time as you can talking to people about their cameras and try to get your hands on them (the cameras, btw)..

You'll then be in a good position to decide but wait and see before running out and spending your hard earned cash. Or 'phone the tutor beforehand and ask his/her opinion..

Regards, David..

I found some information about the class finally. It was buried on a site that isn't linked to by the regular registration site. For those who don't want to wade through my ramblings the last bit will summarize my questions..

Because I figure I'll get some kind of a deal when buying online as a package I want to go that route which means I probably need to buy before the class starts in case of shipping and possible returns. The course description says 8mp or higher and a 3x zoom lens. That shoots my cheap k100d out of the water. So if I can't go cheap I'll go good. The rebel XT isn't much more than the k100d but the k10d is tempting..

First question is: Approximately what mm is 3x at?.

I know the k10d has the weather seal and shake reduction. In reality, are these... effective? As I said we do get a lot of rain when it isn't summer(see bottom of post). I might be buying this for a summer course but I plan on keeping it for much longer so I'm actually buying for years to come. I figure the shake reduction isn't going to make a difference with a tripod which is what most setup shots will be but it seems like it would be great for those spur of the moment shots. I'm just not sure if either of these features really do what they say they do to an extent where it matters.



I don't like going into a store to pick a brain only to go off and buy it online cheaper, which is why I'm picking online brains instead. Since I did actually find the instructor's name and thus I'll give the instructor a shout but I'm not entirely sure what to ask about. What comes to mind is: Will the class deal with only stills or a mix of action and still? Is there any problem with something other than a nikon or canon, like unfamiliar settings? (The site says they can't recommend a brand/store but many use those two brands.) What software will we be using in class if any?.

Is there anything else that I should definitely ask about before buying?.

I checked for a adequate description of the rain here. http://www.43things.com/entries/view/386586.

Thebill and oregonsux are both fairly accurate. The overcastness makes some people a bit depressed but I enjoy it. If I know the camera can take it I will likely be out taking pictures in the rain..

Approximately what lens size gives a 3x zoom?Do the shake reduction and weather seal on the k10d make much of a difference?.

What are good questions to ask the class instructor before buying a camera to use in the course?..

Yoippari wrote:.

The course description says 8mp or higher and a 3x zoomlens. That shoots my cheap k100d out of the water. So if I can't gocheap I'll go good. The rebel XT isn't much more than the k100d butthe k10d is tempting..

This suggests to me that the instructors are either(a) clueless, or.

(b) keeping things simple for possibly clueless students, and just weeding out those with older equipment that's ignoring the present iteration of the megapixel race.

The reasons I say this.

MP is not that important, particularly in the absence of a guarantee that they're -good- pixels (e.g. not smooshed onto a 1/2.5 sensor).

Zoom is a ratio between focal lengths. A 100-300mm varifocal lens would match that 'criteria'. So would a 14-42mm varifocal lens. So '3x' zoom is not really a good spec, other than suggesting a versatility / ease-of-quality-design trade-off..

First question is: Approximately what mm is 3x at?.

See above..

I know the k10d has the weather seal and shake reduction. Inreality, are these... effective? As I said we do get a lot of rain.

Can't vouch for the K10D, but my Olympus E-1 and it's also weather-sealed lenses (Q: have you verified that not only your body but your lenses are sealed?) have been through rain, no problems beyond the fact that, well, one's shooting in rain. Others have put theirs through significantly worse..

In-body antishake can be quite effective, judging from the user reports I'm seeing regarding the E-510 on the Olympus SLR forum..

*snip*.

I don't like going into a store to pick a brain only to go off andbuy it online cheaper, which is why I'm picking online brainsinstead. Since I did actually find the instructor's name and thusI'll give the instructor a shout but I'm not entirely sure what toask about..

You might want to inquire about the requirements, given that they're slightly vague..

*snip*.

Is there anything else that I should definitely ask about beforebuying?.

Well, types of shots and circumstances are the big thing. Whether you'd be expected to bring any particular accessories (hard to teach people about bounce flash if they lack capable flash units, for instance... but it would not surprise me if the course left this out, given the nature of the specs)...

Weird course that requires a 8mpix camera..

This I shot in weather approximating oregon conditions:.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

Only addition I'd make to a standard dslr/kit lens combination is get a good size hood on the lens, will keep drops of the front of the lens..

As to your chain mail pics, look into a tent. Product photography tents can be found on ebay for less than $50.Don't wait for the Nikon D-whatever, have fun now!http://www.flickr.com/photos/j_wijnands/..

Because I figure I'll get some kind of a deal when buying online asa package I want to go that route which means I probably need tobuy before the class starts in case of shipping and possiblereturns. The course description says 8mp or higher and a 3x zoomlens. That shoots my cheap k100d out of the water. So if I can't gocheap I'll go good. The rebel XT isn't much more than the k100d butthe k10d is tempting..

First question is: Approximately what mm is 3x at?.

It is ridiculous to require 8MP. Whoever wrote that does not know what they are talking about. The difference between 8MP and 6MP only translates to a difference of 15% in each edge length of the picture at the same resolution, i.e. a 10x 8 inch from 6MP has identical resolution to an 11.5 x 9 inch print from 8 MP..

The sharpness of the lens and the skill of the photographer are far more important matters. Your 'cheap' K100D with the pretty-good lens it comes with (18-55 mm) is an absolutely ideal camera to get going with and correctly exposed and focussed pictures with this can be used to make 16 x 12 prints good enough to hang on the wall. How much more resolution do you need? (especially at the unavoidable cost of higher noise, which degrades low-light performance)? The K100D is only 'cheap' because the cost of electronic devices has plummeted in recent years and there is a price war going on at the low end of the DSLR market to capture new users. Your K100D is of a quality that only a professional could have dreamed of (and been able to afford) 5 years ago..

Start your course with the K100D. The time to buy a new camera is when you find that the current one will not let you take the pictures you want because of it's technical limitations - (e.g. if you want to shoot very fast bursts for sports photgraphy; or have access to high-end telephoto lenses that cost more than a small car; or want to make six-feet-square enlargements, you will need to trade up). By then you will know what you need to trade up to. Until then, learn how to use your very fine current camera to it's full capacity and save your money.Mike..

Agree with what people have said..

Resolution on a DSLR for a course is irrelevant. It's only this year that base DSLRs with more than 6Mp appeared, and most pros would be quite happy with 6Mp. Taking photos well is not about resolution. The supposedly obsolete Nikon D50 has 6Mp is still sought after by many people..

A 3x is a zoom rating - it does not tell you what range you need. A zoom lens would be described as a 35mm equivalent range, like 28-200mm, which would be a 7x zoom starting with a wide angle 28mm. A 3x zoom is the standard zoom range with SLR kit zooms which are normally 18-55 mm ( which equates to approx 28-84 mm at 35mm equiv ). Most compacts would have a 3x zoom but a different range ( not as wide angle as 28mm ). They should state the range they need, as the lowest number, which defines the widest angle you can view, is pretty critical if you need to do wide-angle course work..

If that's all they ask for I'd look for another course ! They may not be be very good. Check the course out and see if they are accredited or the person giving the course is a qualified pro with experience..

If that description is an example of the quality of the course you'd learn more reading the forums than doing the course..

StephenG.

Fuji S9600Fuji S5200Fuji F30Fuji E900Canon A710ISPCLinuxOS..

Here are the basic course descriptions just to let you know what I know about the course..

ART262 Intermediate Photography2 class and 4 lab hrs/wk, 4 cr..

Introduces technical photography including studio lighting for portraits and product work, color, photojournalism, and art direction. Prerequisite: ART261 or ART265.Offered as needed..

ART263 Photography: Special Topics2 class and 4 lab hrs/wk, 4 cr..

Emphasizes the freedom to experiment with photographic techniques. May include darkroom work, infrared black and white, toning techniques, compositing images, and aesthetic issues. Prerequisite: ART261 or ART265 or consent of instructor.Offered as needed..

ART265 Digital Photography2 class and 4 lab hrs/wk, 4 cr..

Introduces digital photography, focusing on camera handling, capturing, editing, and printing and presentation of digital images. Investigates important themes and photographers in the history of photography..

Not taken in that order. General [film] photography is 261 which explains why the more advanced courses are before digital..

The page with the requirements is over here http://www.cccvc.com/art265/.

I left a message for the instructor to call back to answer some questions about buying a camera before the course starts. I have until probably the end of the first week, maybe the second week to drop the class with full refund if I'm not getting anything out of it though the whole point of picking up an extra class over the summer was to get at least 2 more credits to qualify for military service. So dropping it would delay that possibility a bit more..

The whole point about "cheap" k100d is that it seems to be the cheapest entry dslr (except the k110d) which is appealing, but if I'm going to have to spend more I may as well take a measurable step up instead of going for what looks like the same camera just trading shake reduction for 2mp (rebel xt). I'm not trying to dis the xt as I don't know enough to have an opinion yet but stats wise the xt doesn't look much more impressive than a k100d..

If the instructor (who is apparently "adjunct faculty" meaning he doesn't work there, he just teaches) really doesn't know what he's doing what should I look for (or ask)? I only have a week before class starts so I'll need to know fairly soon..

Note: I tend to be long winded, expressing multiple ideas in one post and sometimes trying to elaborate...

Looks good..

When reading I found.

What Digital Camera should you choose?.

There are a wide range of camera features available which can make it confusing as to which camera to purchase. We can not recommend camera manufacturers, nor retailers. However, students taking the class have successfully used Canon or Nikon digital SLRs cameras..

Now I can imagine that past students have used the very popular D100 and D70Don't wait for the Nikon D-whatever, have fun now!http://www.flickr.com/photos/j_wijnands/..

Still baffled why you'd need an 8Mp over a 6Mp. I'd at least check with them if this is really essential. It's essentially forces up your costs for no real photographic reason ( at leastthat I know of )..

If you're happy to go ahead, look for a second hand/refurb Olympus E-500, Canon 350D or Canon 20D. They have the 8 Mp resolution and you might get a decent price from a dealer. You might even get one new as clearance. The basic kit lens for each is all you need ( note that the Olympus kit lens will be a 14-45mm, but this is the correct size - it is the same range as the 18-55mm on most of the other DSLRs )..

StephenG.

Fuji S9600Fuji S5200Fuji F30Fuji E900Canon A710ISPCLinuxOS..

If students on this course have successfully used Nikon cameras in the past, it's a safe bet that many of them must have used the D50 or D70, which are both 6MP and have been Nikon's main amateur cameras for a few years. They have only just been superseded (the D50 was replaced by the D40... which is also 6MP and currently a very popular camera). Really, 6MP will be fine, and your tutor won't be able to tell the difference by looking at the pictures. Stick with your K100D - it will be a waste of money to spend hundreds of dollars on something that produces pictures that are indistinguishable from those taken on your K100D up to A3 size..

Best wishesMike..

I don't actually have a k100d yet. That is just the camera that I was all set to order when I read the 8mp thing...

The course description says 8mp or higher and a 3x zoomlens. That shoots my cheap k100d out of the water..

Ahaaa... when I read your comment above I assumed you already had it, and were being put under pressure to spend even more money on something else. If you are starting from scratch it's a different issue. The K100D IS an excellent camera but if you have the budget for it you might as well get the best you can afford. Lots of other people on this thread have given good advice on that score. Apologies for the confusionMike..

I wasn't the most clear on that point..

I haven't really set a budget yet. I don't want to go over $1000 with this whole thing but even $1000 will hurt. Basically I don't want to spend more than I have too but if I need to I'll go ahead and make the money count. If that makes sense...

I haven't really set a budget yet. I don't want to go over $1000with this whole thing but even $1000 will hurt. Basically I don'twant to spend more than I have too but if I need to I'll go aheadand make the money count. If that makes sense..

I'd ask the tutor about this 8MP issue - I suspect that it is just an approximate and arbitrary guideline. If this is the case and 6MP is fine (which really should be the case, given that this was what almost everybody was using until last year!) then you can go for the Pentax K100D or Nikon D40, both of which come with zoom lenses covering a 3x range from wideangle to modest telephoto. 6MP will allow pin-sharp A4 prints at a reslution higher than the human eye can resolve, and can make very good prints at bigger sizes bearing in mind that you view them from a few inches further away so your eye can resolve less detail. Also the Olympus E400 has it's fans. All are excellent and more than good enough for your needs; IMO opinion the Pentax has the edge because it has a shake reduction feature built in which allow you to use slower shutter speeds in low-light situations without so much blurring due to camera shake. It is also fully compatible with a wide variety of older lenses, and a real bargain at the moment..

If you DO want to spend a little more, the Canon Digital Rebel XTi is very popular; the Nikon D40x is like the D40 but with 10MP rather than 6MP (less access to manual controls than the Canon but a rather better lens - a toss-up). Last year's models which have been discontinued (and are often available cheap) are the Nikon D50 (6MP) and the Canon Digital Rebel XT (8 MP). Technical reviews of all of them are available on this site..

The fortunate truth is that there is no bad DSLR in this bunch so there is no wrong decision to be made - the technical differences between them are trivial compared to the skill of the user. Something you can't tell by reading technical reviews however is what it will feel like in your hands, which is one of the most important things. If you have large hands (like me) you might not be comfortable with the smaller Canon and Olympus models but may be happier with the slightly chunkier Pentax and Nikon models. Whatever feels best to you within your budget is the correct choice and you can be confident that you have made a good decision..

Have fun - and please post some pictures when you've got going!Mike..

Interesting: if I was making a vague not too specific because it ain't carved in stone recommendation I'd say 5 mp woul be OK but 8 mp is better because it does 300 ppi on a sheet of A4 paper or 8" x 11" and you can crop from it - which would be something you should know about..

And x3 zoom seems reasonable. So the equivalent or 30 to 90 mm (in 35 mm film terms) which would cover landscapes and portraits..

As for Nikon or Canon I expect that's because they advertise the most. And people do seem to think there's no one else at times..

Pity they don't do a short 1 hour course on buying cameras..

Having read their page I'd expect them to say a cable release is needed if a tripod is so highly recommended. That open a whole new can of worms... (And no mention of a lens hood!).

By the way: what does it mean about "cr's"? Do they mean credits and so you collect them (like boxtops) and so many means a degree in French, Astronomy and Cooking or what? Just baffled by it; no more than curiosity behind the question..

Regards, David..

Just re-read it and it says:.

"The instructor will cover important features of digital cameras the first class meeting of ART265. A digital camera is not required the first week, but is required by the first class meeting of the second week.".

So why not wait?.

Regards (again), David..

Shipping and sorting out potential problems with the online store...

I lived in the Albany, Oregon area for @ 7 years and I attended Linn-Benton Community College there. Great school. Had a MUCH better photography program than OSU..

The overcast days are great for photography. It creates a nice even light with no harsh shadows..

A lot of people stay depressed in that area because it is always so gray, don't let it get you down. Just get a good rain hood for your camera and don't be afraid to get yourself wet.Scott W. McClure.

Http://www.couriernews.comhttp://www.got-photos.com.

'You only get one sunrise and one sunset a day and you only get so many days on the planet. A good photographer does the math and doesn't waste either.'... The Late Galen Rowell..

We have a tripod that I just need to get back from a friend I loaned it to..

The CR refers to credits. As in college credit. The class counts as an elective. I also need 2 more credits to join the military. This class has 4..

So aside from the camera+lens and memory card what else do I need? Flash, remote, lens hood, filters, screen guards?..

Yoippari wrote:.

We have a tripod that I just need to get back from a friend Iloaned it to..

Should be OK then the remote is needed to fire the camera without touching it and setting up vibrations. A mirror lock up is useful but you either get them or don't get them built into the camera. (So read the manual... ) If the budget is stretched then the self timer set to a couple of seconds will do the trick, or one of those little remote controls (but they need batteries and are one more thing to go wrong)..

The CR refers to credits. As in college credit. The class counts asan elective. I also need 2 more credits to join the military. Thisclass has 4..

I'm still baffled but we'll let it pass. To me college means several years working on one single subject and exams every 3 or 4 weeks and course work in between and a final grilling after a dreadful exam..

So aside from the camera+lens and memory card what else do I need?Flash, remote, lens hood, filters, screen guards?.

Memory cards, two or three (one full, one in the camera and one empty), don't buy huge ones as they can fail and a large one means you lose more work. Flash - probably but wait and see; IMO flash is so specialised that the little thing on the camera will do to start you off..

Lens hoods often come with the lens but not always. You'll probably be lucky. They are easily lost, dropped and trodden on, btw..

Filters - some people swear by a large collection and keep one on the camera all the time: others will tell you they are a waste of time and money. Don't believe the adverts about them btw; like all adverts they are a version of the truth..

Screen guards - can't answer that but all I've ever needed is a bit of cloth to wipe the screen clear from time to time. (Get one of those little cloths opticians give away with glasses - probably free if lucky.).

I'd add to your list a soft small water-colour brush. They have long wooden handles that can be sawn off and then the brush is used to gently remove specks of dust from the lens. Don't attempt to clean the CCD with them, btw..

Regards, David..

Filters - some people swear by a large collection and keep one onthe camera all the time: others will tell you they are a waste oftime and money. Don't believe the adverts about them btw; like alladverts they are a version of the truth..

Small practical point: salesmen will try and sell you a filter such as UV or skylight for an extra $20 or $30 'to protect the lens'. IMO a lens hood does this better and is usually free with the lens... it's worth putting a protective filter on in the rain or at sea to keep raindrops / salt spray off the front element, otherwise don't bother, the lens hood protects it against bangs and bumps.Mike..

A quick rundown on American college as I know it. From what I understand college and university have different meanings in the UK. Here college can refer to a large department at a university but for the most part the terms are interchangeable..

Classes have credit hours. This is for each hour per week you spend in class (labs either don't count or they count at 1/3 value in my experience). This is a measurement of workload and overall progress. You need a minimum amount of college level credits in math, english, science, elective, and physical education credits to graduate as general college level education..

There are typical curriculums where they expect you to take these specific classes but they always(?) require social sciences or PE or some other general education classes which your degree doesn't care which ones you get just that you have taken them..

Degrees require specific classes so while they do have credit values you don't need to worry about them as much because you will be taking them anyway. Its all the other classes you need to worry about. For example: mechanical engineering. A transfer associates degree (two years at community college to go straight into the third year at a university) in ME requires specific engineering courses, chemistry, advanced math, and then general level english, biology, physical education, health, and a minimums number of elective credits which can be just about anything beyond the required courses for your degree...

Many thanks: it explains a lot of things. I guess we'll go that way soon. OTOH we don't need Latin to get a degree these days..

You mentioned "advanced" maths and so now I am wondering how that compares with our "A" level maths or "A" level physics ("A" as in "Advanced")... Listening to the politicians talking about it and explaining the average they expect, I realise they don't even understand averages and/or percentages..

Regards, David..

"Advanced" maths normally means having been taught basic Calculus ( integration and differentiation of functions and some related things )..

StephenG.

Fuji S9600Fuji S5200Fuji F30Fuji E900Canon A710ISPCLinuxOS..

Sjgcit wrote:.

"Advanced" maths normally means having been taught basic Calculus( integration and differentiation of functions and some relatedthings )..

It was the level they teach physics that I was mostly interested in. Be interesting to compare UK paper for 16 & 18 yr olds with their version etc..

Regards, David..