I'm not an expert of any kind, and have legal right to be wrong. .

Felicity wrote:.

My question is that theoretically if you take a 10mp size sensor andput fewer pixels on it would that help the ISO performance?.

I suppose not. We need to redesign piels themselves to take advantage of newly available space on a chip. (make larger pixels and more sophisticated amplifiers and microlenses.).

Could agreat ISO performing 6mp camera be made if it was large physically?.

Well, I belive that these two are not related directly..

What makes the DSLR sensor able to do higher ISO without all the noise?.

1) Sensors are larger as are "cells" on them. 2X larger pixel would catch 4X more light, everything else being equal, and has more space for other circuitry..

2) Generally higher expectations and higher prices allow engineers to think more bout quality..

Here's interesting article on sensors and their sizes:http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/.../tutorials/digital-camera-sensor-size.htm..

Felicity wrote:.

It seems that there are very few non-DSLRs with usable ISOperformance over 200. The Fuji is an exception due to it's sensor(and I have the f30 and the natural light photos are wonderful) butwhat makes their technology better? Why don't other manufacturerspursue that?.

Correct, small sensor cameras typically have poor high-iso performance. the Fuji technology captures each of the 3 colors (R,G, B) at each photosite, rather than one color at each site in a matrix like the other mfrs... different strokes for different folks... and I am not certain of the licensing on Fuji's tech...

The more pixels in a given area, the worse the heat and other sources of 'noise' will be..

My question is that theoretically if you take a 10mp size sensor andput fewer pixels on it would that help the ISO performance? Could agreat ISO performing 6mp camera be made if it was large physically?.

Put a 6mp on an APS-C (canon dSLR crop sensor cam size) and a 10mp on the same chip, given the same level of tech on each one, yes, the 6mp would likely be less noisy. if you want this size sensor, you WILL have a larger lens and body.. no way around it...

Same rules for a 1/2.5" (compact size) sensor.. but you would be hard pressed to sell a 3mp superzoom next to, for example, the new Canon S5 ... the big costs are in the optics, not the sensor, and joe average consumer is sold on high mp costs...

What makes the DSLR sensor able to do higher ISO without all the noise?.

Sensor size among other things. among SLR's, the lens(es) are a whole other set of parameters from the camera body. the target audience of dSLR's is (usually) much more discerning than the market for compacts, image quality is much higher on the list of requirements..

Cheers,S.**My XT IS Full Frame APS-C/FF of course!*****So is my 5D 35mm/FF**..

ScottyNV wrote:.

Felicity wrote:.

It seems that there are very few non-DSLRs with usable ISOperformance over 200. The Fuji is an exception due to it's sensor(and I have the f30 and the natural light photos are wonderful) butwhat makes their technology better? Why don't other manufacturerspursue that?.

Correct, small sensor cameras typically have poor high-isoperformance. the Fuji technology captures each of the 3 colors (R,G,B) at each photosite, rather than one color at each site in a matrixlike the other mfrs....

Not true. Fuji sensor has bayer matrix. See http://www.dpreview.com/news/0301/03012202fujisuperccdsr.asp.

BogdanMy pictures are my memorieshttp://freeweb.siol.net/hrastni3/..

ScottyNV wrote:.

Correct, small sensor cameras typically have poor high-isoperformance. the Fuji technology captures each of the 3 colors (R,G,B) at each photosite, rather than one color at each site in a matrixlike the other mfrs... different strokes for different folks... andI am not certain of the licensing on Fuji's tech...

Not so. You are thinking of the Foveon sensor that has been around for a number of years but is only used by Sigma in their cameras..

Fuji super sensors have a diamond shape photon pattern and have small secondary sensors per pixel which allows them to record a greater dynamic range of light (See the recent S5 review for example)..

Chris Elliott.

*Nikon* D Eighty + Fifty - Other equipment in Profile.

Http://PlacidoD.Zenfolio.com/..

Felicity wrote:.

My question is that theoretically if you take a 10mp size sensor andput fewer pixels on it would that help the ISO performance? Could agreat ISO performing 6mp camera be made if it was large physically?.

To use that over used addage "Size matters". Not the number of pixels (unless we get down to ridiculous numbers) but the size of the sensor..

Take a look at the photo below. It was taken in July 1999 with my 1.4 MPixel Olympus 1400XL SLR. Not many pixels but the CCD size was 2/3"..

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

The next SLR Olympus produced the C2500L had 2.5 MPixels and same size sensor but drew this comment from the review on this site in November 1999:-.

"Noise visible on images, especially in shadows".

Http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympusc2500l/page11.asp.

So the problem has been around a long time. Improvements in technology have reduced it's effect but at any given time in technology sensor size (relative to number of pixels) is still the biggest factor..

Point & Shoot cameras could be made much better with a larger sensor i.e same as a DSLR other things being equal..

What makes the DSLR sensor able to do higher ISO without all the noise?.

You already have the answer - The size of the sensor (relative to the number of pixels)..

I really do not understand why manufactueres do not make a 1.5x crop (ie. same size as a DSLR) CCD Point & Shoot. Sigma are not far off launching one. Maybe everyone will climb on the bandwagon then..

Chris Elliott.

*Nikon* D Eighty + Fifty - Other equipment in Profile.

Http://PlacidoD.Zenfolio.com/..

Yes, Fuji uses the 'dual-site' type to build highlight detail, I was thinking of the Foevon that Sigma uses, got crossed up there..Cheers,S.**My XT IS Full Frame APS-C/FF of course!*****So is my 5D 35mm/FF**..

Become big cameras because of the larger optics (lenses) needed to cover the larger frame (sensor)... any camera with an APS size sensor and 18-250mm lens will be at least the same size as a Canon Rebel 350/XT or Nikon D40 and a lens covering that same range. And as expensive... big glass costs...Cheers,S.**My XT IS Full Frame APS-C/FF of course!*****So is my 5D 35mm/FF**..