Vektor wrote:.

I just bought a 30D and quickly realized that I'm over my head. Ikept reading about the virtues of Raw vs JPG so I've been shootingRaw + JPG and I'm completely lost when it comes to PP. I'm wonderinghow to learn what a good baseline is. I'm a little frustrated, I lookat others results with the 30D and the colors really pop the imagesare sharp ect. I'm certain I can acheive these results with myequipment, it's my lack of experience and ability to process the RAWworkflow that has me mystified. Perhaps if someone could tell me somegood Picture style settings for JPG's I could compare the two andbegin figuring out how to work with Raw Converters from there.

I'mcurrently shooting with a 24-105L and a 50 1.8II. If someone couldpoint me in the right direction I'd be very grateful. Any tips,websites, books, videos ect. Thanks, Mike.

If your JPEG's don't pop, with color and clarity, then it might not be the PP you are seeing. It might be a lousy lens, or it might be that you need more photographic skills..

On the other hand, an abscence of PP skills affect both formats..

Why not post one of your images and let us take a look?.

Dave..

It's a kind of general question and this is a kind of general answer. It may be some help despite that..

(1) RAW work flow - my method ( everyone is different ).

- card to hard disc via card reader- open in my raw converter ( LightZone these days )- Batch process the lot( This produces something like the camera would do )( producing 16-bit TIFFs ) ( temporary files !!! )- Open noise processing software ( NeatImage Pro for me )- Batch process the 16-bit TIFFs to a new directory( producing JPEGs at 100% quality ) ( final files )- Delete the temporary 16-bit TIFFs- View the final JPEGs- IF I want to I then individually process particular files that look likethey might benefit from special attention, or are particularly good shots( maybe three images from fifty or a hundred )- And that's it..

This takes very little time ( minutes for me, maybe an hour for the PC ) until we get to individual processing, which takes as long as I can afford or want to. Sometimes it takes no time, as batch processing was fine ( or all the pictures were not worth it  )..

Note that batch processing will usually allow you to use either the default processing ( based on camera settings saved with your image when shooting ), or a saved profile ( or template in LightZone jargon ) of your own choosing. Batch processing is how you automate the drudgery and concentrate your effort on special photos ( great or in need of more help )..

(2) Special points to note.

- White balance can require a special treatment for difficult situations. Building up a set of templates/profiles can be quite useful here. Usually it's a quick adjustment and you can apply this either during RAW conversion or after ( to the JPEG ). Usually there is a specific tool for this and you can often do it simply by clicking the tool on an area that should be gray or white. RAW converters usually let you adjust white balance by temperature as well, and sometimes tint..

- Don't delete the raw files. I mention this as you do say you're a novice at this, so just in case. They are the digital negative and you may want them to reprocess an image at another time..

- You can post process the JPEGs as well. This is often a good idea as this may let you use tools the RAW conversion process will not..

- If the image is noisy I often give it a slight boost of saturation ( or vividness ) prior to noise processing, because noise processing can de-saturate colours..

- Sometimes RAW processing software will do 'colour noise reduction' to try and reduce noise at that stage. I believe this interferes with the noise reduction software and find it useless ( or worse ). As a result I turn this off in raw conversion..

- Apply sharpness using 'Unsharp Mask', not 'Sharpen' which is rather primitive. I do something different myself, because NeatImage lets you apply sharpening in a different way which I find quite effective. However sometimes I do no sharpening during noise procesisng and do it manually later..

- Whatever you do I suggest you apply sharpening as late as possible - i.e. preferably last..

StephenG.

Pentax K100DFuji S5200Fuji E900PCLinuxOS..

I see you have Lightroom. I also use Lightroom and find it very easy and quickly can procees my pics..

If you are not used to using manual settings, or even if you are, I find it to be very helpful to go into Develop, View go down to Show Clippings in the View menu. Check this. Your pics will then show if you have blown the highlightsAlso check your histogram. If the graph is touching the right side, you have overexposed, or blown the highlights. The the graph is touching the right it is the shadows and you have lost detail. In Lightroom clipping shadows shown up in blue and highlights are red..

When you shoot in raw you can usually recover. Use the slide bar in recovery and/or exposure until the red in your pics go away.- If you have lost detail and the shadows are blue, use the Black slider until the blue goes away..

Fill flash is also a good slider to use if part of your pic is dark. For example, if you take a pic of a house and everything looks good but the porch or door looks dark, but not the blue shadows you can use fill flash to lighten it up..

With these controls and using raw I think you will be very pleased with your pics..

You can also check your settings from Lightroom, Developerjust above the exposure line. Check them and see the results you get with different settings, you will soon learn what setting work best for you..

One other point, and this is probably just my preference, when I have developed by pics I save them as TIF not JPG, as TIF is lossless, If you need to have a smaller file just save it as TIF with the size you prefer..

I know this is a long post and hope that it helps.-Beth..

Presuming that you have some good images to start with, I did write a very quick guide to Lightroom on how to get an image to 'Pop'.

Take a look at.

Http://www.pixcellence.co.uk/html/photo_blog_00005.html.

There are some other tips there that you might find useful..

Clwyd - Pixcellence Wedding Photographer London.

Http://www.pixcellence.co.uk/http://www.pixcellenceweddings.comhttp://www.pixcellenceweddings.blogspot.com..

Thanks for your replies, I just got home from work 5:09 a.m. I'll read thoroughly and post an example when I get up. I apologize for such a general question, I guess I was just generally frustrated. Without a doubt my skills are lacking, my lenses are fine however. More tomorrow, err later today. Man third shift is for the birds..

Maybe you should concentrate on a few images and try a lot of different ( even wild ) things with them. It's a tough learning curve and it's surprising how your skills grow, long after you think you have it nailed..

Maybe right after third shift is a bad time to try this. .

StephenG.

Pentax K100DFuji S5200Fuji E900PCLinuxOS..

You're just wasting time messaing around with RAW..

It's like going to the farmer's field and running after the cow when you want a steak..

Go to the butcher, using JPEG..

You'll still have enough to do getting the picture cooked properly on the barbecue starting with a JPEG..

BAK..

Sjgcit wrote:.

Maybe you should concentrate on a few images and try a lot ofdifferent ( even wild ) things with them. It's a tough learningcurve and it's surprising how your skills grow, long after you thinkyou have it nailed..

Maybe right after third shift is a bad time to try this. .

StephenG.

His problem is one that is commonly posted. Sometimes it's a lack of skill with taking pictures, sometimes a lack of skill processing them. Sometimes bad equipment. Until we can see an actual image, all we can do is speculate..

Dave..

BAK wrote:.

You're just wasting time messaing around with RAW..

It's like going to the farmer's field and running after the cow whenyou want a steak..

Go to the butcher, using JPEG..

You'll still have enough to do getting the picture cooked properly onthe barbecue starting with a JPEG..

BAK.

He's talking about both... .

Dave..

Here are a couple of examples. One of the things I'm noticing as that the image that I'm viewing in Lightroom looks nothing like the image I export. Also the different converter/editors look very different. I think it's the WB that changes so I've probably got something messed up with my monitors color profile, although I did some reading about this issue and thought I changed the profile to the correct one so that I'd have consistancy. I'm using Adobe's pro photo profile as I understood that is what Lightroom uses..

My most recent images I stopped doing the JPEG +Raw in order to save space but I think I'm switching back. It's time for me to get a second hardrive I guess. Now this photo looks flat, lifeless,grey and dull in Lightroom ..

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

This one was closer to what I had adjusted it to be:.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

Here is a link to a few comparisons:http://mscopp.zenfolio.com/p602444518/.

I think I probably have a color space/calibration issue in addition to lack of skills and experience. I appreciate the help and input, I'll get there eventually.I'mm off to work again I'll check back in in the a.m...

Without commenting on whether these are "good" or "bad" photo's, I really don't see anything wrong. Any image can certainly be tweaked, but on my monitor they look just fine...:(.

I was expecting to copy them, reprocess them, and then repost, to show you what you did wrong. Waste of time, I would merely be "correcting" to suit my personal taste..

As far as your site, goes, they merely look like they were processed for different effects. Again, nothing "wrong.".

Dave.

Vektor wrote:.

Here are a couple of examples. One of the things I'm noticing as thatthe image that I'm viewing in Lightroom looks nothing like the imageI export. Also the different converter/editors look very different.I think it's the WB that changes so I've probably got somethingmessed up with my monitors color profile, although I did some readingabout this issue and thought I changed the profile to the correct oneso that I'd have consistancy. I'm using Adobe's pro photo profile asI understood that is what Lightroom uses.My most recent images I stopped doing the JPEG +Raw in order to savespace but I think I'm switching back. It's time for me to get asecond hardrive I guess. Now this photo looks flat, lifeless,grey anddull in Lightroom ...

I think I lack the verbiage to correctly describe what it is I'm after. I have off of work on Tues, Wed and can better address this issue when I've got some time, so I'll get to the bottom of it then. As for good or bad , I got my first camera in April of this year so I have very little expectation with regards to my skill level, it's pretty simple it doesn't exist yet. I am however quite taken with photography and plan to explore it fully. Thanks for your time and input, Mike..