Instead of the 2 lens kit you said, consider buying the body only and getting tamron 18-250 zoom. same wideangle but the telephoto end is longer. the tamron has a very good review in popphoto.com currently. do not know how this compares in price to the 2 lens setup..

The tamron would help satisfy your long zoom itch...

Don't autofocus with the D40 - manual focus can be improved with a katz eye screen and magnifier but I wouldn't want to have to manually focus on my only lens (I own a D40 too)..

You won't regret it - it's a great camera .

'Those who give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety' - Benjamin Franklin..

If you have not done so yet, read the reviews for all the entry level dslrs here on dpreview or onhttp://www.camerapedia.org and make up your own mind. The reviews will convince you that the Canon 400D has the best image quality (especially at high iso) and the best lens options (depending on what you like to photograph). Be wary of posts (like this one) that encourage you to buy what we ownthat advice may not be in your best interest. Good luck..

Jerry..

Get a D50 even a refurb one if you can. It works with lenses without a built-in motor...

A K100D gets you better high ISO performance, AS, more features and more lens compatibility...

I know you have asked for advice, but if there was ONE perfect camera we would all be using it. If there was ONE perfect car we would all be driving it..

Different cameras for different people. I chose Pentax (DL and K10D) because of the feel in my hand and how natural it felt to ME. I use a Nikon D200 for work and that is great too..

Be careful of this "HUGE lens selection" statement. Yes there are heaps of Pentax legacy Lenses available, but you won't need all of them. Yes there are heaps of Canon and Nikon lenses in their line up, but you won't be able to AFFORD some of them. It is nice to know they are there, but it doesn't mean you will buy any of them..

All the current DSLRs produce images that no-one here could tell apart. No-one can look at a picture and say, "Oh, Yes, that is from the Canon 30D I can tell by the extreme resolution and lack of vignetting at such a wide angle." or "My look at the quality and texture of that shot, that will be from an Oly"..

So look for a camera that feels right to you and that inspires YOU to make good shots. It is not the camera but the person behind it..

You seem hooked on the, as you put it, "Sexy D80" if the Sexy D80 does it for you then go for it..

A bit like wife and husband, they're not perfect, just perfect in there own way for each other...

Vene Vidi Vici@GMT+8..

Of the big brands you really don't have bad cameras anymore, but each one of them has strength and weaknesses. The Canon D400 has supposedly the best image quality at higher ISO values (but keep that in perspective, it is not that in most cases you will notice that difference), the Nikon is know to be very user friendly, the K100d has in camera Image Stabiliser, the Sony A100 has IS and an apparantly not very effective anti-dust system, the Olympus does have a good ant-dust system but no IS... et cetera..

So find out for yourself what you are looking for in your camera, then go to the shop and try em out and then choose. Don't let peer pressure of fan boy behavior at photography forums decide for you!..

AA Batteries support, SR in body, that just about made it , and also quite nice kit lens also Franka -..

I second that cameraCheers,Leah.

My husband says if I buy one more lens he'll leave me. God I'll miss that man. LBA forever!.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

- Dead Bird Number 6My Flickr Site: http://www.flickr.com/photos//port/index.html..

....I don't use Nikon cameras myself but the D40 & kit lens along with the 55-200VR is a very good choice. Good IQ and nice ergonomics will make you glad that you went with that combo..

....Also, try to remember that some of these Pentax fanboys are always lurking and waiting for someone like you. They'll spout the same line of hype every chance they get. Look at their posting history for yourself!..

I've used various film and digital Nikon, Canon, and Pentax (and one Kodak) SLRs. Inbuilt SR is a huge advantage and for that alone I recommend Pentax and Olympus (Sony too but the A100 is more money) since their image quality is on par with canonikon and they are cheaper too. I don't know what Olympus goes for these days but I know if you get the K100D+ DA18-55 + DA50-200 together you get a $150 rebate so the total is about $550 in the. you want to go the CanoNikon route (which has many of it's own advantages) than I would skip the D40 either way just because of the whole motor-in-lens issue.Cheers,Leah.

My husband says if I buy one more lens he'll leave me. God I'll miss that man. LBA forever!.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

- Dead Bird Number 6My Flickr Site: http://www.flickr.com/photos//port/index.html..

Leya216 wrote:.

..........snip........... you want to go theCanoNikon route (which has many of it's own advantages) than Iwould skip the D40 either way just because of the wholemotor-in-lens issue..

......There are plenty of compatible and affordable Nikor AFS lenses for the D40. And Nikon's in-lens VR is much more effective than any in-body shake reduction mechanism in my opinion. There's a reason why Nikon and Canon own the DSLR market and it isn't because Pentax is misunderstood and under-appreciated. SONY's lenses are over-priced and there's not yet an upgrade path for anyone wanting a better camera body in the future. For that matter, there's not much guarantee that Pentax and SONY will still be making DSLR's three to five years from now. Nikon and Canon are always going to be around and will always be able to support their equipment at their service centers for many years to come.

Are you really trying to help him or are you just hyping your favorite brand?..

Tim in upstate NY wrote:.

....I don't use Nikon cameras myself but the D40 & kit lens alongwith the 55-200VR is a very good choice. Good IQ and niceergonomics will make you glad that you went with that combo..

....Also, try to remember that some of these Pentax fanboys arealways lurking and waiting for someone like you. They'll spout thesame line of hype every chance they get. Look at their postinghistory for yourself!.

LOL!.

And Yours is a classic example of the same post over again....Good advice to look at posting history...lets start with yours and mine!!..... I will always advise people to look at ALL cameras they can get their hands on. Some people LIKE Pentax cameras and will recomend them...thats fine...THEY like them. When someone constantly says DO NOT look at a particular camera....well...what exactly IS a fan boy?.

Neil..

As everyone has said, there are several cameras from many manufacturers that meet your needs..

If you can be clearer about what you intend to shoot then a more accurate recommendation can be made..

Eg if you are really into sports/action, then high ISO perfromance and speed of AF are important - so a canon 400d might be the best thing..

If you are travelling/hiking, maybe a small light Olympus outfit is the best..

On a budget? But need stabilsation? Then in-body IS might prove invaluable (sony, pentax).

Etc...

You two get the prize for the best exchange of views for 6-5-7. Thanks for the humor!.

As my father-in-law used to say (when comparing Chevy vs Ford vs Dodge trux)..."There ain't 2-bits of difference between them." He was a lifelong auto mechanic..

Don't worry too much about your purchase. The BIGGEST difference will be how a particular camera feels in your hands. Get what you like and ignore idiots like us....

Neil holmes wrote:.

Tim in upstate NY wrote:.

....I don't use Nikon cameras myself but the D40 & kit lens alongwith the 55-200VR is a very good choice. Good IQ and niceergonomics will make you glad that you went with that combo..

....Also, try to remember that some of these Pentax fanboys arealways lurking and waiting for someone like you. They'll spout thesame line of hype every chance they get. Look at their postinghistory for yourself!.

LOL!And Yours is a classic example of the same post over again....Goodadvice to look at posting history...lets start with yours andmine!!..... I will always advise people to look at ALL camerasthey can get their hands on. Some people LIKE Pentax cameras andwill recomend them...thats fine...THEY like them. When someoneconstantly says DO NOT look at a particular camera....well...whatexactly IS a fan boy?.

Neil.

Charlie DavisNikon 5700 & Sony R1CATS #25PAS Scribe @ http://www.here-ugo.com/PAS_List.htmHomePage: http://www.1derful.info'I brake for pixels...'..

Chuxter wrote:.

You two get the prize for the best exchange of views for 6-5-7.Thanks for the humor!.

As my father-in-law used to say (when comparing Chevy vs Ford vsDodge trux)..."There ain't 2-bits of difference between them." Hewas a lifelong auto mechanic..

Don't worry too much about your purchase. The BIGGEST differencewill be how a particular camera feels in your hands. Get what youlike and ignore idiots like us....

Neil holmes wrote:.

Tim in upstate NY wrote:.

....I don't use Nikon cameras myself but the D40 & kit lens alongwith the 55-200VR is a very good choice. Good IQ and niceergonomics will make you glad that you went with that combo..

....Also, try to remember that some of these Pentax fanboys arealways lurking and waiting for someone like you. They'll spout thesame line of hype every chance they get. Look at their postinghistory for yourself!.

LOL!And Yours is a classic example of the same post over again....Goodadvice to look at posting history...lets start with yours andmine!!..... I will always advise people to look at ALL camerasthey can get their hands on. Some people LIKE Pentax cameras andwill recomend them...thats fine...THEY like them. When someoneconstantly says DO NOT look at a particular camera....well...whatexactly IS a fan boy?.

Neil.

Charlie DavisNikon 5700 & Sony R1CATS #25PAS Scribe @ http://www.here-ugo.com/PAS_List.htmHomePage: http://www.1derful.info'I brake for pixels...'.

Get what feels right for each camera buyer (what I have always said)vsDo not buy Pentax. Oly, sony.

I think that puts me in your father-in-laws camp..

Neil..

One of the really nice things about the Nikon D40 is that even beginners seem to take really nice photos with them as can be seen on http://www.stunningnikon.com/picturetown/.

The other nice thing is they have an 18-200mm lens which is quite expensive but it's nice to know you can get it if you need it...

Neil holmes wrote:.

Get what feels right for each camera buyer (what I have always said)vsDo not buy Pentax. Oly, sony.

Amen!.

I think that puts me in your father-in-laws camp..

I forgot to mention that he was as poor as a dirt farmer and 2-bits was a LOT of money. He drove Chebys, mostly....

Many years after he made this remark, I bought my first Ford product (also my last Ford product). It was great until 20,000 miles, then it was always broken. At 130,000 miles when I dumped it, it had consumed 2 engines, 3 transmissions, 5 sets of front disk brakes, 4 motor mounts, and a basket-full of water pumps, AC compressors, alternators, etc. Undoubtedly the most unreliable car I have ever had..

But I still think the biggest difference in cheap dSLRs is the feel..

Charlie DavisNikon 5700 & Sony R1CATS #25PAS Scribe @ http://www.here-ugo.com/PAS_List.htmHomePage: http://www.1derful.info'I brake for pixels...'..

MWCT wrote:.

One of the really nice things about the Nikon D40 is that evenbeginners seem to take really nice photos with them as can be seenon http://www.stunningnikon.com/picturetown/.

The other nice thing is they have an 18-200mm lens which is quiteexpensive but it's nice to know you can get it if you need it..

Not nice if you have to pay for the thing! And it has terrible IQ. I attribute it's success to 97% of the buyers not having a clue. .

Charlie DavisNikon 5700 & Sony R1CATS #25PAS Scribe @ http://www.here-ugo.com/PAS_List.htmHomePage: http://www.1derful.info'I brake for pixels...'..

... are limited to Nikon and Canon. Look at both the D40(x) and the Rebel/400D, and see which one you prefer. With either of those purchases you gain entrance to a complete system that can grow with you regardless where your photography takes you. Pentax, Olympus, Sony, etc. are all limited systems (in different ways) and their futures in this industry are far from certain.



Http://www.pbase.com/gzillgihttp://www.pbase.com/gzillgi/wedding_portrait.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window..

On another note, let me explain the system thing, since it's quite relevant..

When you buy a P&S you really don't need too many accessories and you certainly won't be buying lenses if you are the average consumer. Spare batteries, some memory cards, and perhaps a flash is all you will really want to add..

But when getting a digital SLR, you want to consider the lenses that are available to you. The thing is, when you look at a dSLR like Sony that uses all proprietery add-ons, you are looking at a system that locks you in because you will be forced to use Sony (or Minolta) lenses and you won't be able to use say a Canon or Nikkor lens. The lesser players like Olympus, Pentax, Sony etc... are aware of this and offer lower prices and bundled lenses, so if you are sure that you will never really want to expand your lens collection (you're on a very fixed budget, or you are very sure that you won't be taking this hobby anywhere further than casual shooting) then this might represent to you a great deal. But if you decide later to expand your horizons, you will be forced to buy the manufacturer's lenses, which can be hard to find, very expensive, or limited in range. Nikkor and Canon are two manufacturers that have dozens of lenses available, and what's more, bec they have a large market share, third party manufacturers like Tokina develop lenses for these two systems making your buying choices even wider.

And on top of that, aftermarket resale value for these two systems are higher because many people will want to pick up a second hand Canon or Nikon lens but no so a lesser known system like Sony..

I guess it boils down to the fact that on the one hand you have a great system that will work for you in the long run and do everything you could possibly want, vs. a great deal on a package that may in the end not fulfill your requirements..

Incidentally, if you are in the category of people with a very fixed budget and are not likely to take advantage of a full system like Canon's, there is also the possibility that your shooting needs will be accomodated by a simple P&S camera, which can give results that rival dSLR...

MWCT wrote:.

On another note, let me explain the system thing, since it's quiterelevant..

When you buy a P&S you really don't need too many accessories andyou certainly won't be buying lenses if you are the averageconsumer. Spare batteries, some memory cards, and perhaps a flashis all you will really want to add..

But when getting a digital SLR, you want to consider the lensesthat are available to you. The thing is, when you look at a dSLRlike Sony that uses all proprietery add-ons, you are looking at asystem that locks you in because you will be forced to use Sony (orMinolta) lenses and you won't be able to use say a Canon or Nikkorlens. The lesser players like Olympus, Pentax, Sony etc... areaware of this and offer lower prices and bundled lenses, so if youare sure that you will never really want to expand your lenscollection (you're on a very fixed budget, or you are very surethat you won't be taking this hobby anywhere further than casualshooting) then this might represent to you a great deal. But if youdecide later to expand your horizons, you will be forced to buy themanufacturer's lenses, which can be hard to find, very expensive,or limited in range. Nikkor and Canon are two manufacturers thathave dozens of lenses available, and what's more, bec they have alarge market share, third party manufacturers like Tokina developlenses for these two systems making your buying choices even wider.If you aren't sure of where your photography will be taking you ofif you don't have to absolutely save every dollar, buying into theCanon or Nikon systems makes sense because you will give yourselfthe flexibility later of expanding your horizons.



I guess it boils down to the fact that on the one hand you have agreat system that will work for you in the long run and doeverything you could possibly want, vs. a great deal on a packagethat may in the end not fulfill your requirements..

Incidentally, if you are in the category of people with a veryfixed budget and are not likely to take advantage of a full systemlike Canon's, there is also the possibility that your shootingneeds will be accomodated by a simple P&S camera, which can giveresults that rival dSLR..

Hi.

Firstly to the OP, if you like the feel of the Nikon go for it..

Now, regards a system..what do you think I am missing and how much would I have to spend to get the same with another system?.

All image stabilised on my camera...some manual focus but that is not a worry to me..

28mm f2 vivitar mf50 f1.2 Pentax mf17-35 2.8-4 Tamron af28-105 2.8-4 sigma af135 1.8 promura screwmount mf300 f4 Pentax screwmount mfsoon to arrive Tamron 300 2.8 adaptall mf.

Uniquely to Pentax, I also have a 1.7x autofocus adapter that I use/will use with all my primes and some zooms...it is one of the better convertors around iq wise and allows me to use all my manual focus lenses as autofocus ones.....that means I will have a reasonable quality 510mm image stabiliised 4.8 focus limited autofocus lens when used with the Tamron 300..

You would get better quality with a Canon 500mm f4 but that lens alone would be twice as much as my entire kit!.

I also have a front mount fisheye convertor and 2 and 3 times 1 to 1 macro convertors and bellows and a few other lenses of lesser but varying quality like an af 28-200 and a 70-200 4.5 mf.

I am not rich and have accumulated this stuff over many years. If I was a pro sports or wildlife photog I WOULD get the Canon system....I am not though so I repeat...what am I missing?.

What I want next...a few months away at the earliest is a 77 1.8 limited for live music photos...the limiter for me is money, and that would be the same in any system..

Neil..

Neil holmes wrote:.

...Uniquely to Pentax, I also have a 1.7x autofocus adapter that Iuse/will use with all my primes and some zooms...it is one of thebetter convertors around iq wise and allows me to use all my manualfocus lenses as autofocus ones....

That is a neat idea! I had never heard of an autofocus TC..

It made me think of a new product: a telephoto lens that has both a manual focus ring and an autofocus motor. They work in unison to speed up AF..

I'd use it like this. When I take photos I usually sorta know how far away my subject is going to be. Birds in the tree, planes on the runway, baseball player at one of the bases, race car in the corner, etc. There are a few examples where I won't have advanced knowledge of where the action will be. A football game is one. For the majority, however, I can anticipate approximately where I will take pictures.

That would make it faster..

This should work with both phase AF and contrast AF systems..

Thinking about this a bit, the biggest physical change is adding a manual focus ring to an AF lens. This ring would probably have an electronic connection, not a mechanical one. It would simply tell the camera WHERE TO START when auto-focusing. Being electronic makes it easy to select that pre-focus mode or not, depending on the subject..

Charlie DavisNikon 5700 & Sony R1CATS #25PAS Scribe @ http://www.here-ugo.com/PAS_List.htmHomePage: http://www.1derful.info'I brake for pixels...'..

Neil holmes wrote:.

I am not rich and have accumulated this stuff over many years. Ifi was a pro sports or wildlife photog I WOULD get the Canonsystem....I am not though so I repeat...what am I missing?.

.....You've inadvertently pointed out exactly why most new DSLR owners should think twice before buying into one of the small DSLR manufacturers' systems..

...Having been in photography for several years(?) while patiently accumulating your lenses, you're here now implicitly suggesting that a newbie could easily do the same thing?.....not likely!.

....They don't even have any Pentax DSLR's on display at the Circuit City here where I live. The A100 is sold there but but all of the extra lenses in that store are are for either Canon or Nikon. The only independent camera shop here in Binghamton, New York is a Canon dealer. The Ritz store here has mostly Nikons featured in their display. These small company DSLR's are often only available from internet retailers to those who don't live in the large cities where there's a B&H type retailer in the area. It's still a walk-in business for most camera sales.....especially to a beginner who isn't too sure what he/she wants and would like to handle and take a close look at that big purchase before they pull out their checkbook..

Have you forgotten that this is the Beginners Forum?..

Being carried by a big box does not equate with quality. Maybe I need to get rid of my high end audio, because BBY or CC never carried them. NAD must stink too. I never saw them there, either..

Sony and Pentax are the 2 to watch. Sony has the video market and wants DSLR's too. Pentax has been the most innovative in bodies and lenses and offers by far the most bang for the buck. In the case of some of their lenses, the most bang regardless of bucks...

Tim in upstate NY wrote:.

Neil holmes wrote:.

I am not rich and have accumulated this stuff over many years. Ifi was a pro sports or wildlife photog I WOULD get the Canonsystem....I am not though so I repeat...what am I missing?.

.....You've inadvertently pointed out exactly why most new DSLRowners should think twice before buying into one of the small DSLRmanufacturers' systems..

...Having been in photography for several years(?) while patientlyaccumulating your lenses, you're here now implicitly suggestingthat a newbie could easily do the same thing?.....not likely!.

....They don't even have any Pentax DSLR's on display at theCircuit City here where I live. The A100 is sold there but but allof the extra lenses in that store are are for either Canon orNikon. The only independent camera shop here in Binghamton, NewYork is a Canon dealer. The Ritz store here has mostly Nikonsfeatured in their display. These small company DSLR's are oftenonly available from internet retailers to those who don't live inthe large cities where there's a B&H type retailer in the area.It's still a walk-in business for most camera sales.....especiallyto a beginner who isn't too sure what he/she wants and would liketo handle and take a close look at that big purchase before theypull out their checkbook..

Have you forgotten that this is the Beginners Forum?.

No I have not forgotten it. And your argument does not make sense..

I am simply refuting that Pentax does not have a "system" and actually YOU have just proven my point. A newcomer is not gunna buy 5000 dollars worth of Canon lens...just a camera and a lens or 2 and they can do that with any brand. if they want more then they can get more ...for ANY system. If I had 5000 to spend on photography I COULD buy a Canon 500 mm f4 lens (second hand)......or I COULD buy my kit again (some new some second hand) including my 2 dslrs and still have plenty of money left. yes it may take me a bit longer to buy than Canon.....but how many people go from nothing to a 10 lense kit in a week? Once again, if it's a hobby (which it is for me) get the system that works for YOU..

By the way please point out what YOUR current kit is...I find it interesting that MANY people who claim Oly, Pentax and Sony have limited systems often have LESS lenses than the average Pentax user..

Neil..

Crashman7 wrote:.

All the current DSLRs produce images that no-one here could tellapart. No-one can look at a picture and say, "Oh, Yes, that isfrom the Canon 30D I can tell by the extreme resolution and lack ofvignetting at such a wide angle." or "My look at the quality andtexture of that shot, that will be from an Oly"..

A lot may not but many do. It is like those who say all amplifiers, cables and electronics all sound the same. Others hear vast differences. I and others do see a difference, for example, in the way Canon and Pentax render non hard edged detail. Some have called it "texture". I never liked how areas of relatively similar shading get their shading differences wiped out. Areas of bumpy snow look like a blank sheet of paper and faces look plastic...

The in lens motor thing really does limit your lens choices, especially if you want any primes or third party lenses. How much will a 50 cost? How about using the Sigma 17-70 or 70-200?.

Janneman's lawn mower test is sufficient to show that an in body system is more than adequate. Even if AS gives you 3 stops vs 3.5 for an IS system, the fact that it is available on all lenses is a wonderful thing...

Someone once asked what kit we would buy with a certain amount of money. Most posted a suggestion of a DSLR and one, possibly two lenses. I suggested a K100D and a number of lenses. At least 2 were limiteds. People got defensive about the thread and why such an arbitrary amount of money should be chosen...

Tim in upstate NY wrote:.

Featured in their display. These small company DSLR's are oftenonly available from internet retailers to those who don't live inthe large cities where there's a B&H type retailer in the area.It's still a walk-in business for most camera sales.....especiallyto a beginner who isn't too sure what he/she wants and would liketo handle and take a close look at that big purchase before theypull out their checkbook..

I do not live in a large city....in fact I live in a small city several hundred miles inland in Australia. The 2 specialist camera (chain) stores here stock The lower and mid range Nikons and Canons, the Olys and the Pentax k10d and K100d. They give pretty much equal space to all. If you want a higher end camera...its not available here, they would have to get it in. They also stock lots of P&S cameras of all makes...one was a fuji film store so fuji cameras would be natural for them I think..

Poster space at the nearest one changes regularly but at the moment includes large posters for Nikon, Pentax and a few point and shoots..

Have you ever even TRIED any of the cameras you bash? Just because YOU can not find them does not mean that applies to others..

This is the sign on the door of the nearest camera store...taken on my early morning walk today. Take it anyway you want to!.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

Neil.

Link back to flickrhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/26884588@N00/..

Quick comparaison Nikon vs Pentax ....

I do not have experience with oly or canon. I do not have any attachment with any camera company..

I had a pentax K100D and just bought a Nikon D40x..

The D40 has the same body, with 6 megapixels sensor (I needed the extra pixels to be able to crop more)..

A lot of reviews talk mainly about the picture quality , but as most DSLR now have very close performances , it should not be the (only) criteria to choose one..

1) Build quality:.

My first impression with the D40x : how 'plastic' it feels compared to the very solid build of the pentax (and reviews only compare it to the canon that is even worst) .... Just look at the battery cover on both, you will see what I'm talking about..

2) Lenses:.

I will only judge at lenses below 250$Let's just see what we get with the kit lenses and a tele-zoom:Pentax has in body shake reduction and focus motor. The 'kit' lenses.

18-50mm and 50-200mm are both very small. Build construction is solid (metal mount...). Optic quality of the 18-50 is 'average' (mainly because of vignetting)The 50-200mm is well above average for it's price (after rebate).Nikon: 18-55 and 55-200mm (VR version). Again, plastic, plastic and plastic..

The 18-55: may be slightly better in term of optics than the pentax, but do not have anti-shake. In lens focus motor is less noisy , but not faster than the in body one of pentax....

55-200mm VR : everybody is extatic 'how cheap for a VR '... The lens is 1 inche longer (4 inch total) than it's non VR version and the Pentax one. From my first tests, it is not sharper , but I will experience more. Basically you have a small body (which is what I was looking for) , but the size of the lens to get a decent zoom range makes the whole package not very practical for walk around... On the opposite evolution, oly did adapt their 40-150mm to come with a smaller version.....

A note about the 18-200mm VR: this is an organized hype (this class of lens should be in the 300- 500$ )..

Finally with the current rebates Pentax is a steal , and should be your camera to learn how to use a DSLR (as K1000 was for the film)..

The Nikon is a more straight upgrade for the p&s crowd, as it gives 'automatic' more 'pleasing' jpeg (means kodak style reddish saturated colors)..

Now why after saying all that did I choose to change to a Nikon:1) As stated before, I needed more megapixels for croping.2) I did not want a 'bigger' camera (Pentax K10 / Nikon D80 are bigger)..

3) As the title of this thread suggest, we have all been brain washed on 'how wonderful' is the D40..

I will continue to play with the Nikon and the 2 lenses and reports if it brings better results than the pentax ...

....There's a shop in the Australian outback that carries Pentax and even has a Pentax sign on the door and that's your response to the lack of availabilty in the big retail stores in the USA?.

Whooo...weeeee....Yeeee....hah !!!!!!..

Tim in upstate NY wrote:.

....There's a shop in the Australian outback that carries Pentaxand even has a Pentax sign on the door and that's your response tothe lack of availabilty in the big retail stores in the USA?.

Whooo...weeeee....Yeeee....hah !!!!!!.

Lol.

As usual ...you have not said what exactly is this fantastic system YOU have and if you have even SEEN...let alone held , let alone used ANY of the cameras you bash..

I quote my experience and it's a riot to you.....since when is your experience more valid than mine...its different thats all.....as it is for everyone....The Pentax and Oly and Sony cameras ARE system cameras and your endlessly saying otherwise will never make it so..

This IS a newbie forum and unless those newcomers are buying Pro cameras off course they should have as much of a choice as possible...if they choose Canon...great they make fine cameras....but so do all makers...

Tim in upstate NY wrote:.

....There's a shop in the Australian outback that carries Pentaxand even has a Pentax sign on the door and that's your response tothe lack of availabilty in the big retail stores in the USA?.

Whooo...weeeee....Yeeee....hah !!!!!!.

Http://www.shoplocal.com/Binghamton-NY-cl2-150009+102564-dt-pentax.fp.

The K110 is not available here!..

The K100D with the 18-55 kit lens and their 55-200 zoom. The Pentax has in body image stabilization giving all lenses that capability. The combination should be a little less than $800 perhaps. I have used the Nikon D40 and think it is a wonderful camera, but I own the K100D along with all the other Pentax DSLR's and think it is the best of the bunch, with extremely accurate focus and exposure and detail from the 6 megapixel sensor a little greater than the Nikon according to Phil's review. Remember you are getting the best of the 6 mg cameras in both of those models. Definitely a consideration given the fact that it has been in development and refinement for a good while as opposed to the "new" 10 megapixel sensors.Dave Lewis..

Neil holmes wrote:.

Http://www.shoplocal.com/Binghamton-NY-cl2-150009+102564-dt-pentax.fp.

The K110 is not available here!.

...........Without registering with shoplocal.com myself, I have no way of knowing whether it's true that they actually have the K10D, etc. in the store. Tell you what.........I'll stop by there in the next few days and take a look. Stay tuned..

BTW......I did speak with someone a while back at Circuit City about DSLR sales and he said that the D80 was selling as fast as he could get them. The K10D wasn't in stock (or the K100) and he said that they could order them but that there hadn't been much apparent interest. I asked him what brand of DSLR was selling besides C & N and his response was SONY's Alpha followed by a couple of Olympus models. When you consider how infrequently Pentax is seen in the hands of actual users, that sounds fairly accurate..

BTW#2.....I have a profile here at DPR along with a posting history. If you're clever enough to utilize one of these shopping bots like shoplocal.com, it shouldn't be too much of a problem for you to go take a look at it...

Tim in upstate NY wrote:.

Neil holmes wrote:.

Http://www.shoplocal.com/Binghamton-NY-cl2-150009+102564-dt-pentax.fp.

The K110 is not available here!.

...........Without registering with shoplocal.com myself, I have noway of knowing whether it's true that they actually have the K10D,etc. in the store. Tell you what.........I'll stop by there in thenext few days and take a look. Stay tuned..

BTW......I did speak with someone a while back at Circuit Cityabout DSLR sales and he said that the D80 was selling as fast as hecould get them. The K10D wasn't in stock (or the K100) and he saidthat they could order them but that there hadn't been much apparentinterest. I asked him what brand of DSLR was selling besides C & Nand his response was SONY's Alpha followed by a couple of Olympusmodels. When you consider how infrequently Pentax is seen in thehands of actual users, that sounds fairly accurate..

BTW#2.....I have a profile here at DPR along with a postinghistory. If you're clever enough to utilize one of these shoppingbots like shoplocal.com, it shouldn't be too much of a problem foryou to go take a look at it..

Sigh!.

Guess your story is gunna change now, though...from the other side of the planet I was able to find one of these non existant cameras in YOUR home town in less than 5 minutes via a google search..

So lets see... I have a Pentax system. Anyone else can also get a Pentax system...or a Sony one or Oly one ...even Canon or Nikon if they want...its ALL good..

They are available here on the oppossite side of the world, where they get equal treatment with other brands...you couldnt find them there (how hard did you look?) but I could..

And yes you have a posting history....mostly about the same mantra ....of Do not buy Pentax, Oly or Sony.......why not try being positive for a change instead of negative..

Oh well enough of this, you are entitled to your opinion though I do look forward to more of your statments of "fact".

Neil..

Neil holmes wrote:.

Sigh!.

Guess your story is gunna change now, though...from the other sideof the planet I was able to find one of these non existant camerasin YOUR home town in less than 5 minutes via a google search..

......You need to verify that the camera is actually in the store! If you didn't register, then you have presumed something that may or may not be actually true. These automated shopping bots are not reliable. When you go directly to the Ritz online site, they don't offer the pay and then pickup at a store option that you see with Circuit City, Sears, etc. This means that they don't run a comprehensive data base that inventories all stores like the others that I've mentioned. It seems that I've read somewhere that Ritz stores (or at least some of them?) are independently owned franchises which explains why they don't have an integrated online/storefront retailing feature as is common with the others. Being on the other side of the world like you are, it's understandable that you aren't aware of these things..

They are available here on the oppossite side of the world, wherethey get equal treatment with other brands...you couldnt find themthere (how hard did you look?) but I could..

......You need to verify that the camera is actually in the store!.

And yes you have a posting history....mostly about the same mantra....of Do not buy Pentax, Oly or Sony.......why not try beingpositive for a change instead of negative..

......With more than 1300 posts over more than three years, you've determined what? I'd have to read them myself to be sure but I don't recall ever telling anyone to not buy an Olympus..

Oh well enough of this, you are entitled to your opinion though Ido look forward to more of your statments of "fact".

.....Thanks for the affirmation of what I'm entitled to but don't feel too compelled to keep reading my statements of fact as you call them. It's tiresome arguing with someone who is on a brand crusade...

..The fact that the Ritz online site doesn't charge NY sales tax is proof that the the Ritz store here in Binghamton is an independent franchise. If Ritz actually owned any stores in New York, they'd be required by state law to charge the tax on their online sales to residents of New York like myself. My guess is that Ritz is based in a state that doesn't even have a sales tax. B&H charges the tax because their online site isn't separated from the storefront like this. Try googling that from Australia!..

Tim in upstate NY wrote:.

..The fact that the Ritz online site doesn't charge NY sales tax isproof that the the Ritz store here in Binghamton is an independentfranchise. If Ritz actually owned any stores in New York, they'd berequired by state law to charge the tax on their online sales toresidents of New York like myself. My guess is that Ritz is basedin a state that doesn't even have a sales tax. B&H charges the taxbecause their online site isn't separated from the storefront likethis. Try googling that from Australia!.

As much as I want to resist posting this....Just WHO is on the brand crusade.?.

What Part of BUY WHATS RIGHT FOR YOU, but look at ALL your options is a "brand crusade"? Seems to me only one of us is saying do not buy something and it aint me! As far as your concerned, even if the Pentax for example feels better for a person, they should not look at it anyway...who cares if a Canon hurts your pinky...buy that!....lol lol lol...

As for availability...I just did a google search... typed in binghamton camera, clicked the first link...typed in pentax and got in store link including " in stock" at Ritz camera 11 court st binghamton. But then what would I know...I don't even use Nikon, let alone Canon!.

You could also try Radioshack at Binghamton shop plaza ..

Neil..

Greg Zillgitt wrote:.

Nikon and Canon are the only two camera manufacturers who you canbe certain will still be in the game in 5 or 10 years..

How do all the Nikon DX and Canon EF-S lens owners know for certain that Full-Frame 35mm sensors won't be the "in" standard in 5 or 10 years? If you're seeking insurance for compatibility a decade from now, do you advocate buying only Nikon non-DX or Canon EF lenses?.

Nikon relies on Sony for sensors and Sanyo to manufacture their entire Coolpix line - who's to say that Nikon won't get frozen out by licensing and patent restrictions a decade from now?.

Why count out Sony? They're huge and own a mount that fits 18 million existing KM lenses already in circulation. You can't seriously believe that the KM mount - and Pentax K-mount - are going to just disappear..

Are you certain that no industry-wide open standard mount will take over the DSLR market within 10 years? Four Thirds hasn't been a big splash so far but it - or an as yet unknown competing open standard - could take over the market in 10 years, no?.

So tell us again what the smart choices are for ten years from now?.

Group Captain Mandrake: 'I was tortured by the Japanese, Jack, if you must know; not a pretty story....Strange thing is they make such bloody good cameras.' (Dr. Strangelove, 1964)..

Tim in upstate NY wrote:.

There's not much guarantee that Pentax and SONY will still be makingDSLR's three to five years from now..

Perhaps. That that's not the same, however, as saying that there will no quality cameras being made in three to five years to fit the 18-million KM mount lens and 24-million Pentax K-mount lenses already in circulation. Seems rather unlikely doesn't it?.

Tim in upstate NY wrote:.

Nikon and Canon are always going to be around and will always be able tosupport their equipment at their service centers for many years to come..

From complaints on the Nikon and Canon forums, the existing Nikon and Canon service centers aren't so great even in the face of competition. Imagine the service Nikon and Canon owners would get if Nikon and Canon were the only game available in five years! Why offer service when you could just sell replacement cameras to a captive market?.

Group Captain Mandrake: 'I was tortured by the Japanese, Jack, if you must know; not a pretty story....Strange thing is they make such bloody good cameras.' (Dr. Strangelove, 1964)..

I now see that have a post in my history titled "But I am a Pentax fangirl..."!.

Leya, I shall forever hold you responsible for this blemish on my reputation. My chest isn't as flat and firm as it was when I was only a lad but I'd never go so far as to intentionally proclaim myself to be a "Pentax fangirl". H*ll, the wifey will be soon be watching my internet use to see what sordid business I've gotten myself into. Bad enough my chatting with strange women on-line, the wife will be worried that I'm BEING a strange woman on-line!.

Major Kong: 'Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones. You sure you got today's codes?' (Dr. Strangelove, 1964)..

I couldn't even be sure about ten months. Sure I think Canon and Nikon will be solid in ten years. I'd like to think Pentax will too, but they have just worked a deal with Hoya and who knows where that will lead. Sony has a DSLR now with a lens base. I would put my money on Sony long term, so wouldn't think of writing them off.Dave Lewis..

Actually unless I am doing the math wrong.. the Pentax K100d with kit 18-55 and a DA 50-200 with 150 dollar rebate works out to $568... at buydig.. someone check my math...UnbelievablegusGet what makes you happy...Anything less makes you less happy!..

Maxwell Smart wrote:.

I now see that have a post in my history titled "But I am a Pentaxfangirl..."!.

Leya, I shall forever hold you responsible for this blemish on myreputation. My chest isn't as flat and firm as it was when I wasonly a lad but I'd never go so far as to intentionally proclaimmyself to be a "Pentax fangirl". H*ll, the wifey will be soon bewatching my internet use to see what sordid business I've gottenmyself into. Bad enough my chatting with strange women on-line,the wife will be worried that I'm BEING a strange woman on-line!Major Kong: 'Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and arodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a setof earphones. You sure you got today's codes?' (Dr. Strangelove,1964).

Cheers,Leah.

My husband says if I buy one more lens he'll leave me. God I'll miss that man. LBA forever!.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

- Dead Bird Number 6My Flickr Site: http://www.flickr.com/photos//port/index.html..

Wow, there are some heated comments on this thread. And some good advice too: try them all out and go with what feels good in your hand. They all work and work well and, unless you are planning to turn pro and have very demanding requirements, there are plenty of accessories / lenses etc. for all of them..

FWIW: I went to my local camera store last month determined that I was going to buy a Nikon D40 based on all the reviews etc and the repultation of Nikon in the DSLR world. I came away with a Pentax K100D because, in order of priority, (i) it felt better in my hand; (ii) I really like the second LCD panel on the top (which the entry-level Nikon and Canon cameras have abandoned); and (iii) it has in-camera image stabilisation which will work with all lenses, which means I don't need to pay extra for vibration reduction with every new lens..

If there was one best camera we'd all have it.Mike..

To me you sound far more 'fan boyish' than the people you accuse of that same thing....

Tim in upstate NY wrote:.

Leya216 wrote:.

..........snip........... you want to go theCanoNikon route (which has many of it's own advantages) than Iwould skip the D40 either way just because of the wholemotor-in-lens issue..

......There are plenty of compatible and affordable Nikor AFSlenses for the D40. And Nikon's in-lens VR is much more effectivethan any in-body shake reduction mechanism in my opinion. There's areason why Nikon and Canon own the DSLR market and it isn't becausePentax is misunderstood and under-appreciated. SONY's lenses areover-priced and there's not yet an upgrade path for anyone wantinga better camera body in the future. For that matter, there's notmuch guarantee that Pentax and SONY will still be making DSLR'sthree to five years from now. Nikon and Canon are always going tobe around and will always be able to support their equipment attheir service centers for many years to come.

Are you really trying to help himor are you just hyping your favorite brand?..

Tim in upstate NY wrote:.

..The fact that the Ritz online site doesn't charge NY sales tax isproof that the the Ritz store here in Binghamton is an independentfranchise. If Ritz actually owned any stores in New York, they'd berequired by state law to charge the tax on their online sales toresidents of New York like myself. My guess is that Ritz is basedin a state that doesn't even have a sales tax. B&H charges the taxbecause their online site isn't separated from the storefront likethis. Try googling that from Australia!.

The Ritz websites and Ritz stores are separate companies, but there are no franchises. All stores are corporate, Ritz Camera Centers...

Jchoate wrote:.

If you have not done so yet, read the reviews for all the entrylevel dslrs here on dpreview or onhttp://www.camerapedia.org and make upyour own mind. 1. **The reviews will convince you that the Canon 400Dhas the best image quality (especially at high iso)** and the 2. **bestlens options (depending on what you like to photograph)**. Be waryof posts (like this one) that encourage you to buy what weownthat advice may not be in your best interest. Good luck..

Jerry.

1. Many people are complaining about a decent amount of noticeable noise on higher iso settings. 400D doesn't offer better image quality at higher iso, it just offers more noise (which comes with more megapixels)..

2. Canon has more expensive lenses. It doesn't offer many lenses with IS that are budget friendly (like for example is the Nikkor 55-200 VR). Some of third party lenses are also great and the lens makers allways make them for each brand (Canon & Nikon). The absence of in-build af motor in D40 is not such a problem, if you are a beginner - the D40 is certainly build for beginner photographer that don't own any lenses without motor. There is a bunch of decent lenses with motor - as a beginner you can build a nice system using D40 w kit lens (18-55 II) + Nikkor 55-200 VR + Sigma 10-20 HSM + SB400 Flash. Or you just can keep only your kit lens, it's a decent one...

Exactly right! Except I would highly recommend B&H, where the same price ($720-$150=$570) can be had along with the added comfort of their excellent service and support..

After all was said and done, I purchased the K100D, 18-55, 50-200 AND the 50mm 1.4, for an amazing $798 after rebate. This gives me the added fun of indoor photo's without flash - which is one of the things that has been beckoning me to the DSLR world. This is truly an amazing deal for anyone - especially for those like myself who are making the transition from P&S to DSLR..

Igilligantoo wrote:.

Actually unless I am doing the math wrong.. the Pentax K100d withkit 18-55 and a DA 50-200 with 150 dollar rebate works out to$568... at buydig.. someone check my math...UnbelievablegusGet what makes you happy...Anything less makes you less happy!..

Neil holmes wrote:.

As for availability...I just did a google search... typed inbinghamton camera, clicked the first link...typed in pentax and gotin store link including " in stock" at Ritz camera 11 court stbinghamton. But then what would I know...I don't even use Nikon,let alone Canon!.

You could also try Radioshack at Binghamton shop plaza ..

..........I finally stopped by the Ritz store here in Binghamton two days ago and you were right. They do carry the K100, K110 and K10d. It had been a few months maybe since I'd last been there and things have changed. Oddly enough though, they did not have the SONY Alpha which was surprising to me. The Oly E410, E510 and Lumix DMC/L1 were also on display in addition to the usual large selection from Nikon and Canon. Since Circuit City was on my way home, I stopped by there as well and they still carry nothing in regard Pentax DSLR's but do have the Oly's and Alpha along with a big selection from C & N...

I only just found this thread and was surprised to read your last post here Tim. Kudos to you for following through and posting your findings which is something I never thought you'd do..

Curious though.....

Did you have a hold and play of the K10D ? .

Bazz...

Sir_bazz wrote:.

I only just found this thread and was surprised to read your lastpost here Tim. Kudos to you for following through and posting yourfindings which is something I never thought you'd do..

Curious though.....

Did you have a hold and play of the K10D ? .

....No but I did hold a D40x and E-410. The D40x is surisingly small but easy to hold and felt good to me. Not significantly larger than the Oly to me..

....My reason for going to these two places was to handle a Fuji S6500 actually. It's the camera that I'm thinking of getting for my daughter. Neither place had one though.....  ..

Hi.

As with Sir Bazz I am suprised you replied but you just went up several thousand percent in my estimation. (your still wrong though that is your right). I look forward to the next round..

Neil..

Neil holmes wrote:.

Hi.

As with Sir Bazz I am suprised you replied but you just went upseveral thousand percent in my estimation. (your still wrongthough that is your right). I look forward to the next round..

......Same here..

BTW.....Are you one of those Pentax lens collectors that Voff has been talking about? There's supposed to be 25,000,000 of them stashed away somewhere......lol..