Aposatsk wrote:.

I'm looking for a camera to be used in mainly outside environments tophotograph skies and scenery. At least moderate performance in darkerplaces (like churches or sunset) is required. I desire excellentimage quality and fast use..

Also, I need the camera to have the feel of an SLR in terms of weightand shape. However, I can only afford $400US..

I think I've narrowed it down to the following:.

Panasonic fz50canon s3issony h2/h5 (?)panasonic fz8.

Please let me know which one is best or if there is a better choicenot listed. I'm limited from buying a DSLR because of costrestrictions..

Of those, the FZ50 will give you the closest thing to an "SLR feel". It has more manual controls for zooming and focusing, but aside from that, I think all of the other cameras are better performers, considering the price..

Any of the cameras can photograph sky and scenery just fine - that is high-light, low-ISO stuff, and all of those cameras perform fine. Even most sunsets are considered "high-light" situations - there is often enough light to use at ISO100..

Your problem will be indoors. All of the cameras have IS, so they will be better than non-IS cameras. Of the three, Panasonic's cameras are probably the worst low light performers, so if indoor (flash-less) performance is very important to you, I'd consider either the Sony or Canon..

Sony and Canon perform about the same, and they boil down to basically the NR methods used. Canon has a "leave all the noise there" approach, which means that their images are a lot noisier, but also keep a lot detail. Sony uses some moderate NR, so their images will be less noisy, but also blur away some detail. Personally, I like Canon's approach, because you can always remove noise in post-processing, but if you don't really want to bother editing all your images, I think Sony gives better out of the box performance...

Find what feels best in your hands, and if at all possible, experiment with all four..

As long as there's a hot shoe, you can ADD a flash on-camera. An FZ10 with vivitar 283 flash earned it's keep shooting a wedding and several events for me..

Even cameras without a hot shoe can trigger external flashes or strobes optically,..

Actually, a DSLR is not too far off from your budget these days..

Pentax's K100D, with 18-55 kit lens, is $400, and will exceed all of the cameras you listed in wide-angle (for scenery) and low-light performance (for indoors):.

Http://www.beachcamera.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=PKK110D1855.

And it opens up even more options later on when your budget allows for additional lenses...

For an all-in-one you might consider a Fujifilm S6000.See http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilms6000fd/page6.aspCompare the High ISO image with that of the Canon S3IS...

The $400 is just the start with many lenses to come along with other accessories. If you read the DSLR Forums, posters and responders are just one MORE $1,200 lens from great pix..

Nathan Yan wrote:.

Actually, a DSLR is not too far off from your budget these days..

Pentax's K100D, with 18-55 kit lens, is $400, and will exceed all ofthe cameras you listed in wide-angle (for scenery) and low-lightperformance (for indoors):.

Http://www.beachcamera.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=PKK110D1855.

And it opens up even more options later on when your budget allowsfor additional lenses..

Bob,.

'Sometimes I get to places just when God's ready to have somebody click the shutter.' Ansel Adams.

Sony R1Canon Pro1Casio Z750Nikon 3100.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window..

Thank you for your replies..

Which of these would you say is the best for the money?.

Fujifilm FinePix S6000fsCanon PowerShot S3 ISSony Cyber-shot DSC-H5 (or H2?).

I notice that the Fuji and Sony have some things that Canon lacks, but that comes at a price. Is it worth it? A 100$ difference is a big investment for me..

Please guide me towards the right choice...

Aposatsk wrote:.

Thank you for your replies..

Which of these would you say is the best for the money?.

Fujifilm FinePix S6000fsCanon PowerShot S3 ISSony Cyber-shot DSC-H5 (or H2?).

I notice that the Fuji and Sony have some things that Canon lacks,but that comes at a price. Is it worth it? A 100$ difference is a biginvestment for me..

Well, what things are you finding lacking from the Canon? The S3 would've been my recommendation (although I would still say you might consider looking into the $400 K100D kit... it beats all three of these cameras in every way, except in size and for lack of telephoto)...

Bob Blount wrote:.

The $400 is just the start with many lenses to come along with otheraccessories. If you read the DSLR Forums, posters and responders arejust one MORE $1,200 lens from great pix..

Well, I own an SLR, along with multitudes of thousand dollar lenses. Some people are just gear heads that buy and buy, but I think it's unfair to say that buying a DSLR necessitates a $1000 purchase. The $400 kit works great, and as I've said, will exceed all of the Sony, Canon, Fuji cameras in all important areas, with the exception of not having a telephoto range (which the OP may or may not be interested in)...

I believe that Canon S3 IS has a slightly smaller screen, for one. Anyways, it seems that you're quite confident in suggesting the S3 IS, so that will be what I go with..

I will not be getting the K100 (or K110D) simply because it is a higher investment that I desire. Also, I would appreciate the video recording capability of the point-shoot S3 IS..

Thank you again...

Aposatsk wrote:.

I believe that Canon S3 IS has a slightly smaller screen, for one.Anyways, it seems that you're quite confident in suggesting the S3IS, so that will be what I go with..

I will not be getting the K100 (or K110D) simply because it is ahigher investment that I desire. Also, I would appreciate the videorecording capability of the point-shoot S3 IS..

Thank you again..

Well, don't just wholeheartedly go with the S3 simply because I recommended it. I personally think it's the best out of the three, but the other two aren't bad cameras either. Was smaller screen the only drawback about the S3?..

Well here is what I've found. You can tell me how important these "deficiencies" are:.

-the S3 IS has lower max resolution compared to the H5 and the FZ50-FZ50 has more pixels than the S3 IS and both H2 and H5.

-the S3 IS has a lower ISO rating than the others; will this even matter since higher ISOs will be too noisy anyways?-the S3 IS has a lower Min Shutter (15s) compared to the others-the FZ50 has an external flash adapter; maybe that will be useful later?-the FZ50 allows RAW format-the H5 and FZ50 have better LCD screens than S3.

Then again, I'm not sure if the extra cost for the FZ50 is worth it. It seems that the H2 and the S3 IS are equivalent in price (more or less), while the H5 and FZ50 are much more expensive..

What do you think?..

Aposatsk wrote:.

-FZ50 has more pixels than the S3 IS and both H2 and H5.

FZ50 is better here in resolution..

-the S3 IS has a lower ISO rating than the others; will this evenmatter since higher ISOs will be too noisy anyways?.

It would be advisable to stick to lower ISOs P&S cameras. So immaterial..

-the S3 IS has a lower Min Shutter (15s) compared to the others.

Do you really need more? Don't go by what is not. Go by what you need..

-the FZ50 has an external flash adapter; maybe that will be usefullater?-the FZ50 allows RAW format-the H5 and FZ50 have better LCD screens than S3.

Then again, I'm not sure if the extra cost for the FZ50 is worth it..

It is worth it if you need Raw mode, more resolution, external-flash. FZ50's lens is sharper too with less fringing problems. However you must be ready for shooting in Raw mode and post-processing every image to get the best possible IQ and details (especially anything above base ISO)..

Else S3IS is good enough. 6MP resolution will give you Lab Quality 8"x10" prints. 10MP will give you 10"x15" prints. S3IS has better lens than H2/H7. It has swivel LCD too. The difference in 6MP & 7MP is incremental and not worth the worry..

Keep smiling, Ajayhttp://picasaweb.google.com/ajay0612(Thanks for your precious time & invaluable comments)..

The Fujifim S6000/S6500 should be on your list for the following reasons-.

1. Manual zoom ring is much easier and faster to use than the rocker switch on the other cameras..

2.You will find, as I have, that the zoom range is much more useful than first anticipated. The DSLR option of the Pentax K100D is OK if you can afford an equivalent zoom lens. Note also that the lens on the S6000 is at least the equal of the kit zoom that is available with the K100D.3. Light sensitivity is better than the others..

On the flip-side this camera does not have IS thogh for the type of shots you intend to take it probably won't matter..

Cheers..

Aposatsk wrote:.

Well here is what I've found. You can tell me how important these"deficiencies" are:.

-the S3 IS has lower max resolution compared to the H5 and the FZ50-FZ50 has more pixels than the S3 IS and both H2 and H5.

The amount of MP doesn't really matter much - beyond 6MP, all cameras have "enough" resolution since most computer monitors display images at 2MP at most, and prints up to 8x10 can only resolve up to ~7MP (at 300dpi), and 4x6 prints are only 2MP 9at 300dpi).

-the S3 IS has a lower ISO rating than the others; will this evenmatter since higher ISOs will be too noisy anyways?.

There's much more to high-ISO performance than simply the ISO number. For example, Panasonic has just a high a number as other cameras, but it may not actually be something you want to use:.

Http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz50/page15.asp.

I would take a look at the ISO400 and ISO800 output from the cameras you're looking at, and see which one gives you the image quality you like best. I wouldn't really pay attention to ISO over 800, as all the cameras tend to be pretty terrible..

S3 vs. H5 at ISO800:http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyh5/page13.aspS6000 vs. H2 at ISO800:http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/FujifilmS6000fd/page11.aspFZ8 vs. H5 at ISO400:http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz8/page14.asp.

-the S3 IS has a lower Min Shutter (15s) compared to the others.

You'll rarely need that long of a shutter speed - you would only go up to 15s and beyond for say a very long night exposure of stars and things..

-the FZ50 has an external flash adapter; maybe that will be usefullater?.

Well, if you find yourself using flash right now, it could be useful. Personally, I don't think I'd want to carry around a flash with me, and for most people they're probably not useful enough to be practical. Canon also has the newer S5, which has a hot shoe for flashes as well. As far as I know, I think they are the only two cameras in the class that have the flash adapter..

-the FZ50 allows RAW format.

RAW is extremely useful - it gives you a lot of control over your images, so you can process noise, exposure, color levels, almost anything. However, this also means you have to learn how to process RAW images, and go through RAW processing for all your images before you can get a usable JPG..

-the H5 and FZ50 have better LCD screens than S3.

Eh, it depends on what you mean by "better". The others may be bigger, if that's what you're looking for, but the things that matter more are brightness (can you see it outdoors?) and resolution (how many pixels they have). I don't think any of the cameras are particularly bad or good, but I haven't looked into this much. The S3 does have a swivel-screen, however, which makes it easier to look at the screen when you're shooting at different angles...

As someone who recently went through a similar choice process, I think it comes down to what feels best in your hands and gives you the best overall image quality..

We originally looked at the FZ7 and K100D. My daughter has the Pany; the pictures she sent constantly blew us away. I've used a Ricoh XR-2 SLR for more than 30 years and the thought of being able to use our lovely Cosina 135 mm film lens on the Pentax quite frankly had me drooling..

We handled both cameras in the store. The FZ7 felt a bit too small and light. The viewfinder on the Pentax didn't knock me out but we left thinking, of the two, it was still in the running..

After more reading and discovering the FZ50, it was the one that I really wanted to play with, especially after looking at the pictures posted in the Canon and Panasonic Talk forums. As we Canadians like to say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, eh?.

All of the cameras discussed in this thread are quite capable, which makes the choice that much tougher..

In the end for us, it came down to feel and features the possibility of having a camera that would do just about anything a dSLR could at half the cost and the manual zoom and focus rings had a wonderful feel. The lens quality and the fact that it was the only one we'd have to worry about was the clincher..

Now, more than two months in and many pictures later, we've never second guessed our purchase. In fact, my wife went back in, did an FZ7, FZ8 and S5 IS side-by-side comparison and walked out with the 8..

Good luck!..

I have been reading this thread quietly and wondering where it's going. Nowhere seems to be the direction..

All the contributors seem to be very open minded and fair, not too pushy about brand or their own views. You've been quite lucky that way..

All the cameras are good cameras. The best camera for you is the camera you are most comfortable using. This is an iron law of photography and true regardless of whether you own a 100 dollar compact. or a 10,000 dollar SLR and lenses..

No camera will make you a better photographer, and no camera will make you worse. The truth is a good photographer will be able to do good things with whatever they have, and better things with better equipment, but for most people it's hard graft and luck. I speak personally here..

So stop reading the forums and head for photo shops and try them out..

StephenG.

Pentax K100DFuji S5200Fuji E900PCLinuxOS..

Final Decision?????Bob,.

'Sometimes I get to places just when God's ready to have somebody click the shutter.' Ansel Adams.

Sony R1Canon Pro1Casio Z750Nikon 3100..

I don't know what Camera shops in your part of the world allow you to do when comparing cameras but I doubt whether you could make a good decision on a camera purchase in the shop. I think you would end up buying a product based on it's function and features. Certainly, you could not hope to compare the image quality under all lighting conditions. Also, you need time to explore all of the additional and hidden features of some cameras...

I have tried out a number of cameras in several shops and while I would not make a decision on that alone it's a good way to gauge handling and comfort. You will not take good photos with a camera you are not comfortable with..

Over here I expect a camera store to let me hold a working camera and take some snaps in-store. I've done this with my own memory cards a few times so I can check my software for compatibility and also get a better idea of noise levels. It's also a way of checking the viewfinder, which is pretty important on an SLR, and less so on a compact. It's how I made a final decision not to get an E-410 and buy a K100D instead, for example..

From other forum entries I think that's a minimum to expect from a decent shop. A good shop knows you will be more likely to do some business with them in the future if they're helpful. Shops that will not help are bad shops..

StephenG.

Pentax K100DFuji S5200Fuji E900PCLinuxOS..