Wooooow, slow down a bit there. First of all semi-SLR cannot be compared with DSLR and since you dont mind a bit of bulk Panasonic is dead. Plus FZ50 has much lower quality of the pictuse compared to the other. ISO 200 [FZ50] is a disaster of a photo compared to a ISO800 [D40x]..
Now that we started talking, I would recommend a d40x kit (18-55mm) which is a perfect lens. If you like a bit more reach a perfect upgrade would be a 55-200mmVR which is extremely cheap and versatile, WITH vibration reduction. So in terms of that you will have covered the needed focal lengths. For very low price. The lens you stated are the same build quality as the 18-55 so that makes difference only in the focal range. If you feel satisfied with 18-135mm that kit would be perfect! BUT if you want to get the absolute best of the camera nad picture in every moment without changing lens and so on, get the 18-200VR.
Same sa 18-55mm + 55-200mmVR but you will carry only 1 lens. CAUTION: 18-200mmVR is 700+$.
The Canon comes with a silly lens that has the same focal length, but has very low build quality and extremely low optical quality. So that means Dont get the kit lens. If you get only the Canon body you can look for a good EF 70-200mm f/4L + EF 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5 and a solid prime like EF 50mm f/1.4, which is still a good combination but a bit more expensive. Also the image quality is on the D40x side..
Many will say that the d40x has no autofocus motor, but the lenses that you, me and 99,94% of all people will be buing will be with autofocus motor. The benefit of the in-lens motor is that it is a lot quieter, more precise and a lot faster, simply because it is made for that particular lens and not for all lenses..
At the end I would like to point out the D40 by nikon, which has perfect features and is cheaper than D40x. When printing in sizes below 20x30 noone can spot the difference between them. Many will say that 4mp is a lot, but I suggest you look the results on some tests, that will prove that I am right. The difference in cost can get one solid prime lens. .
Mdos wrote:.
Hi All:.
I've spent about a week looking into a new camera, and I'm at thepoint where I think I need to come up for air and request a littleassistance. I'm looking for a setup that I can leave the house withand get good close ups, action, landscape, indoor/outdoor familyevents, etc., without changing lenses. I don't mind a bit of bulk,but to start out with I'd like a versatile lens that'll handle those95% of scenes I want to shoot. I like the superzooms because of therange of versatility, but I like the dSLRs because I'd like to beable to slap on a macro lens (or some other lens) and take somereally great specialized shots..
I'm mostly going to be printing out 5x7 and 8x10, with perhaps anoccasional 20x30 or poster size print, and some web graphics, so Ifigure the d40x, 400D, and FZ50 will do nicely as far as resolution.I'm handy in Photoshop, and RAW is a must..
- So, to get a feel for a dSLR setup that can compete with theversatility of the FZ50, can someone suggest a configuration with thed40x or 400D?.
- The sensor size of the FZ is a lot smaller than the dSLRs, excusemy ignorance here, but will that make a big difference in picturequality, let's say something noticeable in an 8x10 print at ISO200?.
- I see B&H is carrying the d40x kit with the 18-135mm ED-IF AF-S DXNikkor for $895, is that a good deal?.
- For the purposes stated here, will I see a picture qualitydifference between the d40x and a d40?.
Thanks!.
-Marc.
Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window..
I'm starting to like this tool. Just go to the link below and select an image from the 40X and one from the FZ50. You can compare them side by side.
Http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM.
Pretty much all questions in this beginner's forum is "If I'm driving at 65mph and below, should I buy a Ferrari coup or a Toyota minivan?" And also "Can I get a Ferrari with 3 row seats, GPS navigation, and 12 cup holders?"..
The answer is simple. Only buy Ferrari if you want to go fast. The Toyota is better if what you need is a minivan...
Someone wants to join the growing number of DSLR users! .
Well I think you should be aware of some of the main differences between compact cameras and DSLR.
Here are some of them:.
- ISO/Noise performance is really quite superior on DSLR (both 400D and 40x)..
I would say that even ISO1600 with additionnal post processing can produce great large prints. This is mainly linked to larger photosites..
- Image produced need more post processing. Usually the compact cameras apply more processing on the image (sharpening, noise reduction etc.). IF you like to control your post processing flow it's good news..
- Larger sensors also means huge difference on Depth Of Field between a DSLR and a bridge camera with the "equivalent" focal (equivalent for FOV). This is one very important point to take into account. This can be good to isolate subject and backgound but can be a problem if you just want everything in focus..
Example 50mm f/2.8.
Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.
Example 160mm f/5.6.
Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.
The equivalent shots with a smaller sensor camera would produce larger depth of field with probably both bottles and box in focus in the first shot....
- If you plan to buy a DSLR you will need several lenses to get the best out of it!OK there are some 10X equivalent lenses but it's not the best way to use a DSLR..
- On the models you listed (40x and 400d) there is no livepreview on LCD..
- DSLR have real mechanical shutters ( that can die mechanically).
- changing lenses may introduce dust in camera that may show in the images at small apertures..
- Usually if you go to DSLR it takes some time to get the best of it. (but the auto modes are still there to begin with).
- A DSLR is more funny to use (in my opinion).
- With a DSLR you may sometimes feel ridiculous: for "standard" shots your big camera may often give results that may look not as good as some shots taken by your friends with a compact camera ( not a joke, when light is good and when you want everything in focus compact cameras are very good and the processing applied may produce a photo that pops more than on a DSLR).
My choice 2 years ago was to upgrade to DSLR (350D) and I must say I find it very interesting!.
Mmiikkee..
If you go to DSLR then D40x or Canon 400D... well I would say canon because i'm a canon user but overall they are both very good cameras..
So you can have a look at reviews and discussions in the DSLR forums but I would say that you can't really go wrong..
Maybe look at the lenses you may want to buy in the near future to decide....
Mmiikke..
Excellent input, thanks (everyone)!!.
OK, so after this input and a bit more reading I'm sold on the dSLR. So one final question anyone have a strong opinion on the d40x or 400D with a Tamron 18-250mm f3.5-6.3 Di II lens? Does it have VR?.
Thanks again,.
-Marc..
The Tamron 18-250 is a very good lens considering it has such a wide focal length range (optically better than 18-200 of Sigma or Tamron, and equal to Nikon 18-200 which IS stabilised but pricey), but at the telephoto end you really need it mated to a camera with a stabilised sensor as it doesn't have built in stabilisation. I'm mating it to a Sony Alpha; it has the same finish and looks like they were made for each other. But the same would be true of the Pentax K10D which is heavier but waterproof (though the lens isn't)..
Once you buy the Sony or Pentax, every future lens you buy is automatically stabilised saving you $$$. DOn't get sidetracked by debates around is lens or body stabilisation better - I think most of us who plumped for sensor stabilisastion wouldn't go back to the much heavier and expensive lens stabilised systems of Canon and Niikon!..
Mdos wrote:.
Excellent input, thanks (everyone)!!.
OK, so after this input and a bit more reading I'm sold on the dSLR.So one final question anyone have a strong opinion on the d40x or400D with a Tamron 18-250mm f3.5-6.3 Di II lens? Does it have VR?.
Thanks again,.
-Marc.
WARNING!!! Tamron 16-250mm will NOT autofocus on Nikon d40/d40x. Tamron lenses don't have in-lens motor, one of the reasons that they are so cheap..
P.S. I was wrong to compare the FZ50 [ISO200] with D40/d40x [ISO800]. From the resource dylanbarnhart provided in the third post it is more like FZ50 [ISO100] is same as D40/D40x [ISO800/1600]...
Get either the Canon 400D or the Nikon D40 and combine it with the SIgma 18-200 DC OS ( Nikon has a similar lens) and you will have a combination that will cover most of your needs with room to expand as your abilities do. The Canon combo can probably be had for less than $1200 ( $600 for the camera body and $510 for the lens). Having just graduated from a superzoom ( FUJI S9000), I would not recommend going that route if you plan to do any sports phtography since the focus is a bit slow on all of them compared with a DSLR. DSLR's are also vastly superior in low light conditions if you plan on doing a lot of that type of photography..
Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.
Mike.
Http://www.liquidartgallery.com.
'For every complex problem there is a solution that is obvious, simple..and wrong'..
Dejan Malikovski wrote:.
Many will say that the d40x has no autofocus motor, but the lensesthat you, me and 99,94% of all people will be buing will be withautofocus motor. The benefit of the in-lens motor is that it is a lotquieter, more precise and a lot faster, simply because it is made forthat particular lens and not for all lenses..
I think you're wrong to say this. You just recommended a lens 50 f1.4 that will *not* focus with the D40. Other portrait primes, like the 85 f1.8, and many non-Nikon standard zooms, such as Tamron 17-50 f2.8 and the various 18-200 superzooms, also will not focus with the D40..
The D40 is a fine camera that produces good out-of-box images, but it is WAY restricted in terms of system flexibility. It's not a good body to "grow into" more advanced features and photography...
OK, so given that I'm leaning toward the 400D (which means no IS), what's the furthest I'd want to push a non-IS lens before camera shake becomes an issue, assuming average indoor lighting (if there is such a thing)? Is there a rule of thumb based on lens aperature value?..
Mdos wrote:.
OK, so given that I'm leaning toward the 400D (which means no IS),what's the furthest I'd want to push a non-IS lens before camerashake becomes an issue, assuming average indoor lighting (if there issuch a thing)? Is there a rule of thumb based on lens aperature value?.
The rule of thumb usually is 1/focal length (in 35mm terms)..
So with a 300mm lens, which is really 1.6x so it's 480mm, you would want a 1/480s shutter speed to avoid shake..
With a 10mm lens, which is really 16mm, you'd want 1/16s to avoid shake..
However, your individual tolerance (how steady your hands are) means that the actual rule of thumb will vary wildly. Even without IS, though, most modern SLRs (400D and D40 included) have good enough high-ISO capabilities that you *should* be able to hand-hold with most lenses, although your images will be a bit 'noisy'...
Nathan Yan wrote:.
Dejan Malikovski wrote:.
Many will say that the d40x has no autofocus motor, but the lensesthat you, me and 99,94% of all people will be buing will be withautofocus motor. The benefit of the in-lens motor is that it is a lotquieter, more precise and a lot faster, simply because it is made forthat particular lens and not for all lenses..
I think you're wrong to say this. You just recommended a lens 50f1.4 that will *not* focus with the D40. Other portrait primes, likethe 85 f1.8, and many non-Nikon standard zooms, such as Tamron 17-50f2.8 and the various 18-200 superzooms, also will not focus with theD40..
The D40 is a fine camera that produces good out-of-box images, but itis WAY restricted in terms of system flexibility. It's not a goodbody to "grow into" more advanced features and photography..
The 50mm was intended for the canon..
Well here is a list of lenses for nikon that will Autofocus on d40:.
AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 12-24mm f/4G IF-EDAF-S NIKKOR 14-24mmf/2.8G ED - NEW!AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-EDAF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-EDAF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ED IIAF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-EDAF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-EDAF-S DX VR Zoom-Nikkor 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-EDAF-S NIKKOR 24-70mmf/2.8G ED - NEW!AF-S NIKKOR 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G ED - NEW!AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor 24-120mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-EDAF-S Zoom-Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-EDAF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G EDAF-S DX VR Zoom-Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G IF-EDAF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G IF-EDAF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G IF-EDAF-S VR Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8G IF-EDAF-S VR Nikkor 200mm f/2G IF-EDAF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor 200-400mm f/4G IF-EDAF-S Nikkor 300mm f/4D IF-EDAF-S VR Nikkor 300mm f/2.8G IF-EDAF-S Nikkor 400mm f/2.8D IF-ED IIAF-S NIKKOR 400mm f/2.8G ED VR - NEW!AF-S Nikkor 500mm f/4D IF-ED IIAF-S NIKKOR 500mm f/4G ED VR - NEW!AF-S Nikkor 600mm f/4D IF-ED IIAF-S NIKKOR 600mmf/4G ED VR - NEW!..
Nathan Yan wrote:.
The rule of thumb usually is 1/focal length (in 35mm terms)..
So with a 300mm lens, which is really 1.6x so it's 480mm, you wouldwant a 1/480s shutter speed to avoid shake..
With a 10mm lens, which is really 16mm, you'd want 1/16s to avoid shake..
However, your individual tolerance (how steady your hands are) meansthat the actual rule of thumb will vary wildly. Even without IS,though, most modern SLRs (400D and D40 included) have good enoughhigh-ISO capabilities that you *should* be able to hand-hold withmost lenses, although your images will be a bit 'noisy'..
OK, great info, thanks. But if shutter speed is a function of focal length, and focal length is a function of the camera zoom + lens (i.e. your 300mm example above), then what's the deal with lens aperature values? I see that the following two lenses have the same aperature range but one is a 250mm and one is a 200mm:.
AF18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di II LD IFAF18-250mm f/3.5-6.3 Di II LD IF.
Does this range mean that the 250mm lens will perform as well as the 200mm under identical conditions, providing a further reach?.
Sorry if this is too remedial. I'm reading "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson and I'm still not getting this lens aperature thing..
-Marc..
The lens aperture ( or f stop) refers to how wide the opening is that lets light throuhg the lens, and therfor controls how much light can reach the sensor or film. The number you see for lens aperture ( ie. 2.8, 5.6 etc) is actually inversly related to the opening size. The bigger the number, the smaller the opening. The two lenses you site have a maximum aperture of 3.5 when they are at their wide angle setting and 6.3 when they are at full telephoto zoom. As with these two lenses, most lenses have a narrower maximum aperture when they are at full zoom than they do at their wide angle setting ( Some lenses like the canon 70-200 f2.8 can use their full 2.8 aperture at all zoom settings but this is a very expensive lens).
Aperture only affects camera shake in that it determines what shutter speed you can use to get the right exposure. If the maximum aperture you can get at full zoom is 6.3, you are going to need to use a longer exposure ( slower shutter speed) than you would if your lens was capable of opening to 2.8. Hope that helps. Keep reading. You've chosen and excellent book to start off with..
Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.
Mike.
Http://www.liquidartgallery.com.
'For every complex problem there is a solution that is obvious, simple..and wrong'..
Nice list. But, there are only a couple affordable lens's here. Maybe 5 or 6 of them don't cost more than the camera. It's a useless list IMO..
Dejan Malikovski wrote:.
Nathan Yan wrote:.
Dejan Malikovski wrote:.
Many will say that the d40x has no autofocus motor, but the lensesthat you, me and 99,94% of all people will be buing will be withautofocus motor. The benefit of the in-lens motor is that it is a lotquieter, more precise and a lot faster, simply because it is made forthat particular lens and not for all lenses..
I think you're wrong to say this. You just recommended a lens 50f1.4 that will *not* focus with the D40. Other portrait primes, likethe 85 f1.8, and many non-Nikon standard zooms, such as Tamron 17-50f2.8 and the various 18-200 superzooms, also will not focus with theD40..
The D40 is a fine camera that produces good out-of-box images, but itis WAY restricted in terms of system flexibility. It's not a goodbody to "grow into" more advanced features and photography..
The 50mm was intended for the canon..
Well here is a list of lenses for nikon that will Autofocus on d40:.
AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 12-24mm f/4G IF-EDAF-S NIKKOR 14-24mmf/2.8G ED - NEW!AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-EDAF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-EDAF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ED IIAF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-EDAF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-EDAF-S DX VR Zoom-Nikkor 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-EDAF-S NIKKOR 24-70mmf/2.8G ED - NEW!AF-S NIKKOR 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G ED - NEW!AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor 24-120mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-EDAF-S Zoom-Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-EDAF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G EDAF-S DX VR Zoom-Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G IF-EDAF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G IF-EDAF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G IF-EDAF-S VR Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8G IF-EDAF-S VR Nikkor 200mm f/2G IF-EDAF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor 200-400mm f/4G IF-EDAF-S Nikkor 300mm f/4D IF-EDAF-S VR Nikkor 300mm f/2.8G IF-EDAF-S Nikkor 400mm f/2.8D IF-ED IIAF-S NIKKOR 400mm f/2.8G ED VR - NEW!AF-S Nikkor 500mm f/4D IF-ED IIAF-S NIKKOR 500mm f/4G ED VR - NEW!AF-S Nikkor 600mm f/4D IF-ED IIAF-S NIKKOR 600mmf/4G ED VR - NEW!.
Http://www.flickr.com/photos/djmsmc/..
I could just as easily give you a list of Canon lenses that will work on a 400D. That list would dwarf the Nikon AF-S list..
The point is that there is a fair number of basic, and some essential (like 50 f1.8, in my opinion), that will not autofocus with the D40..
Dejan Malikovski wrote:.
Nathan Yan wrote:.
Dejan Malikovski wrote:.
Many will say that the d40x has no autofocus motor, but the lensesthat you, me and 99,94% of all people will be buing will be withautofocus motor. The benefit of the in-lens motor is that it is a lotquieter, more precise and a lot faster, simply because it is made forthat particular lens and not for all lenses..
I think you're wrong to say this. You just recommended a lens 50f1.4 that will *not* focus with the D40. Other portrait primes, likethe 85 f1.8, and many non-Nikon standard zooms, such as Tamron 17-50f2.8 and the various 18-200 superzooms, also will not focus with theD40..
The D40 is a fine camera that produces good out-of-box images, but itis WAY restricted in terms of system flexibility. It's not a goodbody to "grow into" more advanced features and photography..
The 50mm was intended for the canon..
Well here is a list of lenses for nikon that will Autofocus on d40:.
AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 12-24mm f/4G IF-EDAF-S NIKKOR 14-24mmf/2.8G ED - NEW!AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-EDAF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-EDAF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ED IIAF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-EDAF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-EDAF-S DX VR Zoom-Nikkor 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-EDAF-S NIKKOR 24-70mmf/2.8G ED - NEW!AF-S NIKKOR 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G ED - NEW!AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor 24-120mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-EDAF-S Zoom-Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-EDAF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G EDAF-S DX VR Zoom-Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G IF-EDAF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G IF-EDAF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G IF-EDAF-S VR Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8G IF-EDAF-S VR Nikkor 200mm f/2G IF-EDAF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor 200-400mm f/4G IF-EDAF-S Nikkor 300mm f/4D IF-EDAF-S VR Nikkor 300mm f/2.8G IF-EDAF-S Nikkor 400mm f/2.8D IF-ED IIAF-S NIKKOR 400mm f/2.8G ED VR - NEW!AF-S Nikkor 500mm f/4D IF-ED IIAF-S NIKKOR 500mm f/4G ED VR - NEW!AF-S Nikkor 600mm f/4D IF-ED IIAF-S NIKKOR 600mmf/4G ED VR - NEW!..
Lets measure our lists, christ. I was trying to help. Sorry if you are offended...
Dejan Malikovski wrote:.
Lets measure our lists, christ. I was trying to help. Sorry if youare offended..
Well gee, what was the point of indiscriminately posting a full list of AF-S lenses without regard for which would actually be appropriate for the original poster or a D40 user in general.?..
Well Marc have you decided on something? Or need some more info?..