I should also add that I am primarily viewing these photos on my lcd monitor - I like to get the details!..
One, you need low noise and higher ISO ability. Fuji is all you'll need there and really is the best for LL shots. IS will help, and in some cases you can use it and keep the ISO down, however, in many cases and P&S cameras, the images will be much darker as they don't have the same quailty sensor as the Fuji..
Two, they will also tend to be noisier even with a lower ISO. Mainly again, because their images will be underexposed. IS will only buy you about two stops and that difference is pretty much what the Fuji will give you only much cleaner..
So in essence if you are in a situation with the Fuji at ISO 800 or 1600, you'd need a good quality IS P&S camera with a clean image at ISO 200 or 400. Personally, go with the Fuji in that case..
I don't have too many side by side comparisons, but overall, with the Fuji is great with low light. If you can't get a good hand held shot with it, chances are even a good IS camera will not do well either..
Here are some shots for you to review. I have some full size ones around, but just email me if you need more..
ISO 800:http://www.pbase.com/pdqgp/image/79434406.
ISO 1600 shots Through a Window:http://www.pbase.com/pdqgp/image/77895327http://www.pbase.com/pdqgp/image/77895332.
TimColumbus, Ohiohttp://www.pbase.com/pdqgp..
Fuji F series is your best bet I think..
The Fuji F series inherently produces better images in low light levels than any digital camera of similar size. IS can't overcome too little light and a not dead subject..
I wish the F series had complete manual settings & a good viewfinder & a longer zoom, etc. But the bottom line is they take pictures in much more demanding lighting conditions than the competition..
In my view, the fundamental capacity to take photos in a wide range of lighting conditions overrides most other considerations..
I think that at least half my life takes place in lighting too dim for ISO 200..
The Fuji "E" series seems to have more bells & whistles & maybe the same image quality as the F series (a slightly larger sensor for the E series). I'd look at those too..
Dave..
Thankyou for the input, great photographs also - what light conditions were they taken in?.
Am I correct in assuming I will need a steadier hand to use the fuji than an IS model?.
On some other forums, people are advocating the Canon SD1000 for my needs - how does that compare with the fujis?.
I will take a look at the E series also... pity they all use XD cards...
The Fuji F40 is 30 more than the F31. It is 8.2MP & uses SD OR XD cards..
How would that model fare? Is it a case of more megapixels only?..
I have an F20 (also a panasonic FZ30 & a Canon Digital Rebel 300D). I use the F20 the most - but that may be a passing fancy..
I've added a filter set and 2X teleconverter to the F20..
I've never used any of the other Fuji models but they all look pretty similar. I like the idea that the E series has an optical viewfinder & 4X instead of 3X. Apart from that they are all pretty much peas in a pod so far as I read in the reviews. There are small differences in the degree of noise reduction between the various models..
The F20 has almost no manual control & I don't miss that much (surprisingly). There's a little button to push ("Anti Shake"); it is intended to be a kind of poor man's IS but is a really easy way to push the shutter speed up - in effect it is a toggle between shutter & aperture priority..
Read the reviews (or just the conclusions of them) on this website. I think they all say something like "...in a class by itself natural lighting wise..."..
Yes, I was impressed by the reviews..
I also like the idea of an optical viewfinder (something the Canon has, though whether it is large enough to be useful is another question) but the E series seem to be slightly too large to be able to slip into a pocket..
Are the extra megapixels at the expense of increased noise on the F40?..
Yes users have stated that the F40 does exhibit greater amounts of noise at comparable ISO settings against the F30 and F20. For my money, I would stick with the F30, F31 or if you can still find it, the F20 is an excellent deal. Thats the P&S camera that I own.KelvinNikon D80, Sigma 17-70, 70-300VR, SB-600 FlashGalleries (Taken with a Sony H5):.
Hawaiihttp://picasaweb.google.com/corrsfreak/Hawaii?authkey=QMYfcNocFqQCar show:http://picasaweb.google.com/.../corrsfreak/CarShowMar18?authkey=vdeSQn7a_sgZoo and Ducks:http://picasaweb.google.com/...corrsfreak/CalgaryZooMar17?authkey=DvyRbU989F0..
If only it had IS, it would already be on the credit card!..
Lukealexander wrote:.
If only it had IS, it would already be on the credit card!.
Everybody who hasn't owned a camera with IS is so fascinated with it. The truth is that it's not a "must have" feature like on the video camcorders. The difference from those video cameras is that you can increase shutter speed to eliminate blur from camera shake. It freezes the moment so quickly that camera shake becomes a no-issue. High sensitivity allows faster shutter speeds, and that's why people here recommend the F31..
What IS can do:1. reduce camera shake by 3 stops.
What high sensitivity can do:1. reduce camera shake by 2 stops2. reduce motion blur3. allow beautiful flashless look when shooting indoors4. increase flash range..
Dylan made some good comments regarding IS..
IS is of greatest value to me when I'm shooting with a long lens, like 400mm or greater. IS stops problems due to camera shake but not subject motion..
I'd put IS maybe third on my list of additions to my F20. First would be an articulated LCD screen. But even without these the F series cameras are better than the competition for the range of situations in which they'll take good pictures...
I'd agree with the comments on IS, and I've had two cameras with good IS ! It's useful but not that useful ( more useful with longer zooms, I think )..
If you go for a Fuji it should be the F30 or F31. They have the best sensor..
Viewing at 100% on a monitor you'll be disappointed by every compact camera. To reduce problems ( a bit ) learn to expose shots well. I think most people would agree that this is the best way to lower noise on a compact camera. Bare in mind that at higher ISOs ( from 400 on ) even the F30 and F31 are designed to produce smallish prints ( not more than 8x10 ). AT 1600 they might be OK for 6x4. Expecting to view high ISO shots at 100% on a monitor is just not realistic.
StephenG.
Fuji S9600Fuji S5200Fuji F30Fuji E900Canon A710ISPCLinuxOS..
Thanks for your responses, I now feel better about IS - it is being made out by a lot of people to be a "must have"..
I just ordered the Fuji F31fd so hopefully it will work out well!..
I have the Canon SD700 with IS and I love itI would not buy another camera without IS, BUT........ For your main purposes ( low light people shots in bars or clubs) , I think you made the absolute right choice.....with the Fuji.
IS will prevent CAMERA MOVEMENT or shake in most instances, but NOT PEOPLE MOVEMENT, unless the movement is minimal or moving towards or away from camera......The useable higher ISO of the Fuji is what you really need..
Bruce.
Examples of the Canon SD700IS.
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Thanks for the pictures Bruce. I was mainly thinking of IS for ME, because alcohol can make the hand unsteady haha..
Were those photos taken with or without flash (I assume the latter)?.
The Fuji seems the way to go, but yesterday I saw the F20 was $40 cheaper than the F31 with the only differences being ISO2000 instead of ISO3200, lack of face-detection & slightly inferior battery and screen. I wasn't sure whether those differences were worth $40..
Thoughts?..
Hi Luke,.
If those were the only differences between the two cameras, it would not be worth an extra $40 for me personally, but you might get some better feedback if you posted that question on the Fuji forum. One bit of advice tho.....
Since you've already put in your order for the f31, don't start 2nd guessing yourself, now.....you'll probably be perfectly satisfied with that..
Again,I think you made the right choice going with Fuji, though, for your particular situation.....( My clubbin' days are pretty much behind me, now ...:-)....
In case you care to check it out, I do have a link to about 60 of my SD700IS pics...... p.s. I'm not particularly religious...all the church pics were checking outlighting conditions for a few weddings I was invited to last year..... ..
Good luck with the new cam..
Brucehttp://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g229/brucehunter/?start=all.
P.s. most of my pics are straight from camera, no post processing...only downsized....also, SD700Is discontinued now, replaced by SD 850IS, I think...
Some great pictures there though obviously I can't tell the effect IS has since I don't know steady your hand is .
I'm impressed by that camera's low light performance, or maybe I am easily pleased?.
I will ask at the Fuji forum thanks...
Now, these are shots that would have been saved by Image Stabilization.(taken with p&s camera w/out that feature )......With I.S. , I don't get blur-free low light pics 100 percent of the time butsomewhere in the 90 percent range..
P.s. Maybe I'm easily pleased myself, because I think the quality of today's digital cameras is pretty remarkable, overall..
Have fun and enjoy your new cam,.
Bruce.
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