Olympus..

Crime Scene PhotographyA small gallery of personal work: http://picasaweb.google.com/PID885..

PSM3 wrote:...What else is there?.

If you like the D80's size, see if you can find a D50. It's essentially the same size as the D80. The D50 is still around, and often heavily discounted (at least here in the UK)..

Http://asureimage.com/album/?r=true..

The Pentax K100D seems very good, but does not appear to have thesupport or following Nikon or Canon does.

I really don't think you'd find this a problem. Ask in the Pentax SLR forum if you need reassurance..

There really isn't an SLR that you shouldn't buy - they're all darn good. Just concentrate on getting one you feel comfortable using..

Androohttp://Androo.smugmug.com..

The D40 kit lens feels very cheap but is a very capable performer. I bought one as a cheap walk around for my D40 (I have a Sigma 17-70 as a walk around for my D80).

I suggest you consider the D40 and get a Nikon 18-135 to go with it. Unfortunately they do not sell the D40 as a body only. But you could sell the 18-55 on Ebay (which is where I bought mine) or just keep it to use say on the beach etc..

Alternatively you could go with the D40x body only plus 18-135..

Here in the UK there are rebates on the D40/D40x at the moment. Don't know about where you are.Chris Elliott.

*Nikon* D Eighty + Fifty- Equipment listed in Profile to aid searching..

Http://PlacidoD.zenfolio.com/..

PSM3 wrote:.

The Canon XTi is ideal, except it is just too small to hang onto.Maybe I am holding it wrong, but my pinkie is curled underneath thebody and the bottom front edge of the body rests on the inside edgeof my next finger. Trying to operate controls from this grip isdifficult. Holding the camera with just one pinkie underneathfeels awkward and crowded..

This is probably not what you are looking for, but with the battery grip the camera becomes a lot bulkier (and heavier)..

Many people have reported, that they can hold it better with the grip on. I personally like the option to use the grip when necessary, or take it off and have a small light weight camera..

Two pictures of the XTi with the grip:.

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Fromhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_Digital_Rebel_XTi.

Bye,Philip..

My post should read:.

"... I bought one as a cheap walk around for my *D50* not D40..

Chris Elliott.

*Nikon* D Eighty + Fifty- Equipment listed in Profile to aid searching..

Http://PlacidoD.zenfolio.com/..

I was pretty much in the same situation you were including coming from an A-1. For me the XT and XTi were the lext most logical step but the grip was too small for me. Felt like my fingers were smashed into the inside of the grip..

I decided on a Nikon D50 and just also picked up an Olympus E-330. Both excellent cameras. I would suggest looking into a D80 and an Olympus E-500 and E-330 or the new 410 and 510.Paul..

I came from Canon AE1 and AE1P, I know the 'joys' of big heavy cameras!.

Olympus has excellent lenses and great ergonomics, great image quality AND great prices..

I am disurbed by your statement that you want to avoid the Pentax line because, it 'doesn't have the following' than Canon and Nikon have..

That attitude will cut you off from the major new developments of digital photography long before it has to. Innovation comes from hunger, the turth is, Canon and Nikon aren't very hungry and it shows in their camera line-up. I'm not going to tell you that make bad cameras. Clearly, they do not make bad cameras. But their manufacturers do tend to play it safe.Never trust a man who spells the word 'cheese' with a 'z'..

PaulieWalnuts wrote:.

I was pretty much in the same situation you were including comingfrom an A-1. For me the XT and XTi were the lext most logical stepbut the grip was too small for me. Felt like my fingers weresmashed into the inside of the grip..

I decided on a Nikon D50 and just also picked up an Olympus E-330.Both excellent cameras. I would suggest looking into a D80 and anOlympus E-500 and E-330 or the new 410 and 510.Paul.

Whoops, that should say "I would suggest looking into a D50" which although discontinued can still be found for sale new.Paul..

PSM3 wrote:What else is there?.

Somewhat more expensive than you were looking for - but the SD-14 has a size you would find pleasing, a good LCD, and a very nice viewfinder along with great image quality..

You can examine some full-size sample images here:.

Http://www.sigma-sd14.com/sample-photo/index.html.

Or also on PBase by doing a camera search for "SD-14". Here's a set of user galleries on PBase with full-size SD-14 images:.

Http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr/user_sd14.

> Kendallhttp://InsideAperture.comhttp://www.pbase.com/kgelnerhttp://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr/user_home..

For a nice sized camera and lenses, including primes, Pentax would be good...

Get an L-bracket for your Canon XT..

The Canon XTi is ideal, except it is just too small to hang onto.Maybe I am holding it wrong, but my pinkie is curled underneath thebody and the bottom front edge of the body rests on the inside edgeof my next finger. Trying to operate controls from this grip isdifficult. Holding the camera with just one pinkie underneathfeels awkward and crowded. The Nikon D40 is little better, haslimited lens selection, and the standard lens feels cheap..

Limited lens selection? There are dozens of them...Happy shooting.-Kent..

That post brought out the fan boys! .

PSM3 wrote:.

I have decided to get back into photography, moving up from my oldCanon A-1 and wifes small digital camera, to digital SLR.Unexpectedly, I am finding little to choose from in the under$1,000 market for a body and small zoom lens, and the ability toexpand to varied quality lenses, some prime, others not..

The Canon XTi is ideal, except it is just too small to hang onto..

That is a VERY common complaint about the entry-level Canon DCs..

Maybe I am holding it wrong, but my pinkie is curled underneath thebody and the bottom front edge of the body rests on the inside edgeof my next finger. Trying to operate controls from this grip isdifficult. Holding the camera with just one pinkie underneathfeels awkward and crowded..

You are not doing anything wrong. The problem is that Canon refuses to improve this. In spite of the ergonomics, Canon sells all they want (I guess). This is the John Roach kinda marketing: @#$% focus groups, bring products out quick and leave the ones that sell alone. Kill off the loosers..

The Nikon D40 is little better, haslimited lens selection, and the standard lens feels cheap..

Yes, I too find the D40 to be little better than the XTi. But that cheap lens is actually better than the equivalent Canon. I think the D40 makes sense for customers like you. You are obviously NOT a wacko photographer, so buy the D40 and one lens and avoid the perception that it's an entry into a system. Don't buy anything else! Use that camera until the cheap lens falls off...The D40 is the ultimate P&S camera!.

I havent tried the Canon zoom, but it may be the same way as well..

It is! But doesn't have quite the IQ of the Nikon "kit" lens..

The Pentax K100D seems very good, but does not appear to have thesupport or following Nikon or Canon does, and don't like the LCD on.

The back (Nikon is much better). Don't worry about Pentax not having the "presence" of N & C. Hoya just bought Pentax. Things will either get better or worse. Either way, a Pentax camera is good..

You can't have everything. The Pentax is more solid than the N and C entries. Go pick one up and the difference will jump out! It also feels better, I think..

The reason is that since N and C have bigger manufacturing volume, they have invested in (expensive) plastic tooling. IMO, that reduces the quality of their products, but it DOES keep their cost down..

The Sony Alpha 100 does not appear to rate as well in tests..

It's OK too. Sony is new at this. Their dSLR offerings will get better. Right now, I think it's selling mostly to Sony fan boys?.

Both of these may have better ergonomics, but have not tested..

Probably. Ergonomics are a very subjective, personal thing. I would strongly suggest that you handle both..

However, the biggest difference between the A100 and K100D and the others is that they have IS inside the body! That can be a huge benefit...or totally non-important (if you are not interested in getting a long FL lens in the future)..

Perhaps the best one is the NikonD80, but it is more than I need in capability, and too priceyanyway. What else is there?.

If you have moved up to looking at the D80 (which I REALLY like a LOT), you should also look at the Pentax K10D (which I like even MORE)..

Also, there is another important issue with all these cameras: the quality of the VF. The D80 is the cheapest Nikon dSLR with a pentaprism VF. This makes it MUCH BETTER to look through! Go to your Nikon dealer and look through a D40 and a D80 with the same lens. That will prolly convince you to go with the D80....

But Pentax does even better than N & C in this regard. Even the little K100D has a good VF, but not quite as good as the K10D...just better than the cheap, entry-level cameras from everybody else..

Olympus is another player. But be aware that they have a slightly smaller sensor than the others. To be honest, all the other players call their sensor size "APS-C", but there is a LOT of variability in the size. The smallest APS-C sensor is just barely bigger than the "4/3" that the Olympus uses. Olympus is the only one that has a "dust removal" feature that does anything..

Finally, let me be an "R1 fan boy" for a few sentences. Although it's no longer sold new, it's a teriffic value. Some crooks are selling it for 2X what it sold for new. And people are paying those prices, I guess. Some of us claim the R1 is the best camera that Sony has ever built. It's IQ is stunning!.

It however, is not perfect for everyone. It's big and heavy. I find it fits my big hand perfectly. When I try to carry a small, light camera all day, my hand cramps! I don't have that issue with the R1. Also, the R1 has an EVF, which some people don't like. I, on the other hand, absolutely LOVE the EVF.

With a dSLR, I had to take a shot, then pull it down and look at the preview + histogram. If it was not right, I had to take another picture...ad nausium. Lack of this one feature keeps me from buying another dSLR!.

Charlie DavisNikon 5700 & Sony R1CATS #25PAS Scribe @ http://www.here-ugo.com/PAS_List.htmHomePage: http://www.1derful.info'I brake for pixels...'..

Have a look at a Canon xti with a battery grip added..

Many people have mentioned the small size being a downside, and the larger area of the grip gives them a lot more to hang onto and use and brings it up to a great size.As a bonus, you also get twice the battery life.....

Thanks to all for replies. It is apparent that I must better know what I intend to use the camera for, and to what extent I intend to get into photography. For the most part, the D40 will satisfy, but I may very well want a prime lens or two, do some fiddling with white balance, ISO while shooting, bracketing, etc. More worrisome, is shooting moving subjects, such as wildlife, motorsports and the D40 focusing. These possible requirements do not seem to fit the D40 well. The D80 is just too expensive for my level of interest, so that leaves the ill fitting XTi.

The add-on battery pack helps with ergonomics on the XTi, a plus. Upon examination of the XTi and D40, I did not sense the oft-reported lower quality feeling of the XTi. Panel gaps were more apparent, but did not feel it was cheap..

I'll check them all out, and make a decision. Have a vacation coming and a daughter graduating from college, so need to be well armed!.

Thanks,.

- Phil..

You're not serious are you. Most of the DSLR's currently available are right at or well under $1000: All the Olympus, 2 Canons, 2 Pentaxes. 2, maybe 3 Nikons, the Sony, watch competitive prices and you will see more. How many do you think you want to buy right off.Dave Lewis..

Buiit in Stabilization (not on Canon or Nikon) so you can get good lower cost lenses like the Sigma 70-300 APO DG and have it stabalized..

Great JPG options if you don't want to shoot RAW.

Very sharp 10MP sensor because of how they have set up the filter over the sensorGood basic feature set like:.

Auto bracketing.

Wireless flash triggering from built in Flash.

Spot Metering.

Full compatible with years of Minolta autofocus lenses plus all those made for the Sony.

Fast image can shoot jpgs with out stopping until card is full.

Magnesium frame under the plastic skin..

Its a lot of camera for $625 body street price..

The good news is there are lots of great cameras for what paid for my old Canon Film SLRs.

Ken - KM 5Dhttp://www.cascadephotoworks.com..

If you find the XTI ideal except for size, take a good look at Canon's 30D..

B&H is offering it at US$1087 with 18-55 lens *and* a 2GB 133X CF card.Just marginally over your 1K limit if you consider the card comes for free..

And, it is unquestionably an excellent camera..

Best regards,.

Bruno Lobo..

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Http://www.pbase.com/brunobl..

Regardless of how good the camera may be, I'd be hesitant to lock myself down to Sigma lenses given their reputation for inconsistent QC...

Http://www.pbase.com/gzillgihttp://www.pbase.com/gzillgi/wedding_portrait.

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And what you think canon's non-L's are so much better? Sigma's EX line is just fine...

MWCT wrote:.

Regardless of how good the camera may be, I'd be hesitant to lockmyself down to Sigma lenses given their reputation for inconsistentQC..

I love my Sigma 70-300mm APO and envy a friend's Sigma 10-20mm. I borrowed it once from him and thought twice before returning it, hahaha! I'll get one of those for sure!.

Best regards,.

Bruno Lobo..

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

Http://www.pbase.com/brunobl..

There is more reason than the kit lens for buying any one particular DSLR camera or another..

Despite the continuous war of words between the Nikon and the Canon camps, they both make excellent cameras. What is more of a consideration is the aftermarket lenses that are available..

You will probably have more of a competitive choice with these two brands than with Olympus and Pentax. I don't speak authoritatively on that though, as I don't know what is actually available for the OM and the Pentax ranges these days. I can say that Zuiko lenses for OM cameras are top notch. I used OM1s and OM2s for a long while until I switched to Nikon. Zuiko lenses however come with a premium price. If you are on a tight budget I wouldn't look that way..

I am extremely happy with my D200, but that's way upmarket for you, but the D40x with the 10 megapixel sensor is very attractive. I do prefer the twin control functions on my D70 and my D200, to the single control on the D40 and the Canon range. But unless you have used it you probably would never miss it. The lens availabilty is excellent, both from Nikon and from makers like Tamron and Tokina. Consider that a 50mm f1.8 Nikon prime lens goes for about $100 new, and it is a top rate lens..

My colleague uses a Canon, and again, the camera gives top notch service, and the lens choice is wide, both from Canon and third party manufacturers..

To me, future lens purchases should also be a major factor in deciding which direction you want to go. If you already have brand lenses for a particular film camera, that often points the way already, as you have an existing investment..

Hope this helps you, or anyone else out there when they try and decide what to do..

Equipment=======.

Tin Type camera - and I have the powder burns to prove it!..

MWCT wrote:.

Regardless of how good the camera may be, I'd be hesitant to lockmyself down to Sigma lenses given their reputation for inconsistentQC..

I use the Sigma SD10 and as of March, the Sigma SD14, with various Sigma lenses, which are quite satisfactory, ranging from the 10-20mmEX wide angle to various tele- lenses @ 200mm and 300mm..

Note too that some Sigma owners use certain non-Sigma lenses, with adaptors. A friend and I fit his M42 adaptor and lens to my SD14 for example; fit fine. Several posters in the Sigma forum are quite knowledgeable about alternate lenses, but true, the main lenses for Sigma camera bodies are Sigma lenses and that is not any problem at all.Best regards, SandySD10 and SD14http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischmanhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann..

Your XTi is as big as a wash tub on my display.Dave Lewis..

I have four Pentax DSLR's and have been very pleased with them, but I don't think I would suggest that Pentax is a company that is a mover and a shaker. They have had, after all, 7 versions of the original *istD since the beginning. No doubt they have added features but to suggest they have been taking chances to push the market is a bit of a stretch especially when you are comparing to Canon and Nikon which in the same period have come with much more innovative and just plain new DSLR's My 10D and Rebel D were contemporaries of the *istD and in that same period Canon has come with the small body XT, gone to a 10 megapixel camera in the XTi and come with the 20D and 30D, not to mention three incrimental changes in their pro cameras and now the revolutionary 1D mk III, the absolute industry leader for the sports photographer. I will give Pentax credit for the 10D which is quite an industry leader for performance vs price, but they have considerably lagged in lens production especially on the long end. They haven't made a lens over 200mm for years. Their pro level short to medium primes are wonderful, if you can get one.

While Canon literally fills shop shelves with available lenses..

I'm not a Nikon man, but look at the same period with the D50, D200, D40, D80, D40X and their pro cameras. Granted they are playing it safe as you suggest, but each of those models but the D40x is distinctively different..

Please don't think I'm bashing Pentax. I carry mine with me everywhere. They are the most satisfying cameras I've owned.Dave Lewis..

But if you want to go to a $1000, you really should look at the Pentax K10D with it's kit lens. It feature wise is beyond the 30D and the kit lens is superior.Dave Lewis..

Well, to be honest, I ws thinking about Olympus, I used Pentax to be generous and assumed it was more aggressive than it perhaps is..

But I was really trying to attack the idea that you should only buy from the market leaders. Hungry is generally more active than satisfied..

I don't follow Pentax much so I'll have to take your word that it is more of a play-it-safe company than you would like it to be and of your description of it's cameras. I wonder how much of that attitude is why it is in the situation it is in?.

Now that you've judged the quality of my typing, take a look at my photos..http://www.photo.net/photos/GlenBarrington..

Glen Barrington wrote:.

Well, to be honest, I ws thinking about Olympus, I used Pentax tobe generous and assumed it was more aggressive than it perhaps is..

But I was really trying to attack the idea that you should only buyfrom the market leaders. Hungry is generally more active thansatisfied..

Yes, I too agree that looking beyond Canon and Nikon is a very wise thing to do. Pentax is a great camera and a great choice. Olympus two new models look wonderful, but the 4/3 sensor is never going to come up to the APS sensor for high resolution detail and high ISO noise..

I don't follow Pentax much so I'll have to take your word that itis more of a play-it-safe company than you would like it to be andof your description of it's cameras. I wonder how much of thatattitude is why it is in the situation it is in?.

I'm not sure what you mean here, but I do have a very positive attitude toward Pentax cameras, though I think they should have had their lens production equal the demand their cameras have created. Lenses are very hard to come by for Pentax, while you can find Canon lenses everywhere..

Now that you've judged the quality of my typing, take a look at myphotos..http://www.photo.net/photos/GlenBarrington.

Dave Lewis..

Why won't a four thirds sensor ever deliver the resolution and low noise that the APS sensor will?..

Harmonj wrote:.

Why won't a four thirds sensor ever deliver the resolution and lownoise that the APS sensor will?.

Because it's smaller..

Charlie DavisNikon 5700 & Sony R1CATS #25PAS Scribe @ http://www.here-ugo.com/PAS_List.htmHomePage: http://www.1derful.info'I brake for pixels...'..

Plenty of people say you are wrong and plenty say you are correct. I say examine the quality of Oly photos and decide for yourself..

Me? I love the 4/3s cameras and am eagerly planning to upgrade my E500 to an E510..

Now that you've judged the quality of my typing, take a look at my photos..http://www.photo.net/photos/GlenBarrington..

Troll WhispererBill Turner.

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The just released Olympus E-510 is looking pretty good. It offers two features not found in any competition (live view and a dust-buster reviewed as the only one that works), as well as offers in-body IS, so you're not stuck shelling out big money for lenses with IS..

I feel your pain about the XTi grip that just wasn't going to work for me, and I really tried to make it work, too, because I was pretty much settled on the XTi. I bought the Olympus E-500 2-lens kit and have not regretted it. I don't even regret it now that the E-510 is out, but that's only because I know that the E-510 is going to make a perfect second body for me in about a year (after likely price reductions)..

I ended up with the E-500 because of either (1) I didn't like the price of everything else, or (2) I didn't like the feel of everything else. Now that the E-510 is out, you can pick up an E-500 2-lens kit for closer to $500, and that would allow you to pick up a really nice extra lens or two and still be close to your $1,000 budget..

Chris.

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Come with a really small 4/3 camera, considerably small in both the body and the lens than the D40, XTi and K100D and I'll leap for it. 4/3 is plenty good enough for me if the camera is attractive. I can see no reason to buy any of the existing ones over APS sensor ones, especially for less money.Dave Lewis..

Glen Barrington wrote:.

Plenty of people say you are wrong and plenty say you are correct.I say examine the quality of Oly photos and decide for yourself..

Harmonj asked, "Why won't a four thirds sensor ever deliver the resolution and low noise that the APS sensor will?".

I answered, "Because it's smaller.".

Anybody who disagrees with my answer is an Oly fanboy, thinking that I was insulting his religion..

I didn't say the IQ of a camera that uses a 4/3" sensor was bad. I said that because it is smaller, it will have more problems with noise. I didn't say the noise will be MUCH worse...just worse. I didn't say that smaller sensors have advantages, because it's easier/cheaper to build lenses that are optically faster, thus somewhat compensating for the slightly higher noise. I didn't discuss the in-camera NR issue. Camera IQ is a complex subject.



I just answered his question. My point in being brief is that sensor size is the final determinant of sensor IQ. Duh!.

Note also that APS-C sensors vary considerably in size...from 14.4 x 21.5 to 19.1 x 28.7. The difference in IQ in a 4/3" sensor and the smallest APS-C sensor is tiny, but the difference compared with the largest is HUGE..

Me? I love the 4/3s cameras and am eagerly planning to upgrade myE500 to an E510..

I'm happy for you. .

Charlie DavisNikon 5700 & Sony R1CATS #25PAS Scribe @ http://www.here-ugo.com/PAS_List.htmHomePage: http://www.1derful.info'I brake for pixels...'..