Ok, let me clarify..

I would use the camera for a lot of stuff, not just landscapes and portraits. I love doing macros. I also do some action shots, so the speed of the camera is important. I do not think I do a lot of low light stuff. Mainly outdoors, macros, portraits, and the option for speed shots (multiple shots with the press of a button)..

I guess I am looking for an all around camera...

For all intents and purposes, the cameras are so close that your choice is a toss-up..

The 18-135 lens would be more versatile than the 28-135, even without the IS of the Canon lens. I shoot with a 20D and 28-135 quite often. It isn't wide enough..

The Nikon viewfinder is leaps and bounds better. Not slightly, or a just a little, it is MUCH better..

The Canon has a big LCD on the back..

Best thing to do is get your hands on both bodies. Buy the one that feels better, because that is going to be the only real difference..

Crime Scene PhotographyA small gallery of personal work: http://picasaweb.google.com/PID885..

I never understand this comparison.. outside of 10 MP the XTi is more of an entry level camera. The Nikon D80 is a more complete camera..

After my current KM/Sony mount system.. I tend to prefer Canon but would start at the 30D not the Rebel line..

If I were looking for a new camera I would be looking at:.

Sony A100 because I am in that system now..

If looking at a new system I would consider:Canon 30DPentax K10DNikon D80.

Ken - KM 5Dhttp://www.cascadephotoworks.com..

Loganharpdawg wrote:.

Ive never had a SLR camera before, but am looking to buy one..

So far, I have narrowed it down to the Canon XTi (body only) andthe Nikon D80 (body only)..

Which is better and why? Some say the Nikon produces moresaturated pictures. Others say they are the same. The specsbetween the two are so similar, but want to know if one is superiorin important areas..

I'd say there isn't a better camera. What nikon has as an advantage is a decent body shape, more sensible menus and a far better flash system..

I just want the best quality photos for landscapes and forportraits (mainly landscapes)..

Neither camera will give you a significant advantage. Your own skill and the "click" with your camera will matter more..

Have you held these two?.

LENS:I am considering the 28mm - 155mm lens for the canon (EF 28-135mmIS USM)..

A lot of people will tell you it's not wide enough..

I am considering the 18mm -135mm lens for the Nikon (DX Nikkor)..

Nice range..

The canon lens has a metal mount and image stabilizer. It seems tobe a better lens..

No. It has more sexy specs but looking at the reviews here:.

Http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/index.html the nikon has a better resolution. Not surprising since it's newer..

Thanks.

Don't wait for the Nikon D-whatever, have fun now!http://www.flickr.com/photos/j_wijnands/..

I have owned the 18-135 IS lens for a long time. It is a wonderful lens on my 5D but is not nearly the wide angle you will be looking for, probably. The kit lens will cover that end for you. Why not buy the camera body with the kit lens for $50 more then get something beyond it for longer shooting.Dave Lewis..

Ken_5D wrote:.

I never understand this comparison.. outside of 10 MP the XTi ismore of an entry level camera. The Nikon D80 is a more completecamera..

OK, so how are they so different? What makes the NIKON so much better? Mostly everyone says it is, but HOW???..

Dave Lewis wrote:.

I have owned the 18-135 IS lens for a long time. It is a wonderfullens on my 5D but is not nearly the wide angle you will be lookingfor, probably. The kit lens will cover that end for you. Why notbuy the camera body with the kit lens for $50 more then getsomething beyond it for longer shooting.Dave Lewis.

Thanks Dave,.

I thought about getting the kit lens because I was afraid it would not be wide enough like you said. I never have used it so I would have no idea. I read reviews saying the kit lens is not that good. It is a cheap lens, but I do not want to spend another Large amount of money for a good wide angle lens..

Is that kit lens any good? If not, is there a wide angle lens you would recommend (it does not have to zoom. If I got the cannon, I would still get the 28mm - 135mm lens)..

Wijnands wrote:.

Have you held these two?.

Yeah, I have. My wife likes both, but likes the feel of the NIKON better (I think because it is heavy). I thought the Canon felt a bit small, but I also thought I would get used to it..

I played with the Nikon 18-135mm lens, and thought it was nice. It seems that lens would allow me to do most of my shots (close and far)..

I will read the review. I have no idea of what makes a good lens. All this SLR stuff is new so any info would help. I have been reading A LOT of stuff on the internet, kind of educating myself. I figure if I am going to get a camera, I do not want to limit myself. I am willing to put in the time to learn ALL the features, to become a good photographer...

Thanks for the comparison. I never thought about the view finder. I am so used to using a LCD screen (with the cheep digital cameras)..

Like you have a strong preference for the Nikon. So why not go for that then?.

Let me make it a bit more difficult, don;t expect this camera to last 10 year, with a bit of luck it will last half that before you tire it or it's terribly outdated..

The lenses you mentioned are nice but once again, those aren't the end of it all. Sooner or later you'll want some wider, more tele, faster etc, etc etc..

If that nikon feels good to you and you can afford it then go for it!Don't wait for the Nikon D-whatever, have fun now!http://www.flickr.com/photos/j_wijnands/..

There are some options on the D80 not on the rebel that you may or may not use:.

More options for how to sync your flashWider exposure compensationD80 has a true spot metering like the 30Dlarger viewfinder imageslightly wider metering range on the lowlight endWireless flash control from Camera.

They are both good cameras... but the D80 is just seems to be one step up and much closer in design to the 30D..

Ken - KM 5Dhttp://www.cascadephotoworks.com..

Well, I kind of prefer the Canon. I feel the Nikon is a better camera, but not significantly better. The price difference between the two is also significant. The Nikon is much more expensive. But is the higher price worth it? I just do not want to make an larger investment in a camera and wish 5 months later I got something else..

I realize that I will get more and more into this and end up buying a ton of different lenses and this habit of mine will get to be out of control. I am ok with that. For now, I am looking for a good camera with one, maybe two lenses to get things started...

Thanks for the list. This is the first I have seen..

I am willing to pay for the Canon or the Nikon. I just do not want to wast a lot of money on a Nikon when the Canon will do the exact same thing. If the Nikon is better, I will buy it. I just need to find out why it is better and if the extra featurs will add value to my purchase...

Then ask yourself why you prefer the Canon?Don't wait for the Nikon D-whatever, have fun now!http://www.flickr.com/photos/j_wijnands/..

I went through the same thing as you recently. The choice for me was between the xti with 17-85IS or the D80 with the 18-70 lens. Both were the same price. More features with the D80 body but IS with the Canon. What swayed me towards the D80 was the feel of the two cameras. With the xti with the 17-85 lens it felt like my fingers were going to cramp while the D80 felt perfect.

The 18-70 reviewed consistently very well while the 17-85 was up and down. While it didn't affect my choice at the time, my second lens was the 70-300VR which is over $100 cheaper than the corresponding Canon. I don't think that you can go wrong with either camera...

I am a Nikon owner as are my son and best friend. The D80 is a great camera. I own a D40, myself. The Canon XTI feel cheap to me, as many others seem to agree. I have been reading a lot of posts in these forums for a while now and have found that many long time Canon users (30 yrs. or more.) have switched to Nikon.

I know the Canon 18-55 kit lens is of poor optical quality. You might want to check out KenRockwell.com for Ken's thoughts. He claims that Nikon has the best metering of all the major brands. Nikon also has the best auto white balance in most cases and lower noise than Canon at higher ISOs. Fianlly, I suggest you go to a good camera store and try both cameras out for a while.

They have a very different feel, as you've noted.Ron.

D4018-5555-200VRSB400..

Ron LHeureux wrote:.

I am a Nikon owner as are my son and best friend. The D80 is agreat camera. I own a D40, myself. The Canon XTI feel cheap to me,as many others seem to agree. I have been reading a lot of postsin these forums for a while now and have found that many long timeCanon users (30 yrs. or more.) have switched to Nikon.

I know the Canon 18-55kit lens is of poor optical quality. You might want to check outKenRockwell.com for Ken's thoughts. He claims that Nikon has thebest metering of all the major brands. Nikon also has the bestauto white balance in most cases and lower noise than Canon athigher ISOs. Fianlly, I suggest you go to a good camera store andtry both cameras out for a while.

D4018-5555-200VRSB400.

Rockwell is a known Nikon Fan... read lots of reviews including the ones here on DPreview of course..

I just had a friend upgrade from his D50 to XTi, because the D80 was more than he wanted to spend and the D40 was a downgrade from the D50 for him. It goes both ways depending on what you need your camera to do.Ken - KM 5Dhttp://www.cascadephotoworks.com..

If you've followed Rockwell, you will find he shoots a lot with the Canon 5D. Saying the D40 is inferior is what someone who hasn't used one says.Ron.

D4018-5555-200VRSB400..

Loganharpdawg wrote:.

Ive never had a SLR camera before, but am looking to buy one..

So far, I have narrowed it down to the Canon XTi (body only) andthe Nikon D80 (body only)..

Before this thread descends in to a canon vs nikon thread....

If you are looking for a one-off camera plus lens, then ignore, but otherwise consider the whole sysytem you are buying into. (What lenses you may want down the line, etc)..

Cameras used to last a lifetime. Now they are consumer electronics, there lifetime is shortened considerably. So think ahead..

A canon user will be able to list why canon is better, and a nikon, vice versa. The most important thing is for you to ascertain what is important for you. Both camera will take excellent pictures and will be limited by the user not the camera. Try them for yourself and look at the spec lists. The XTi is not a 'toy', the D80 is not totally useless north of 400 ISO..

That said you are comparing the Canon bottom of the range camera with the mid-range D80 - so most neutrals (me included) would fall out in favour of the D80 (which I would compare to the 30d instead). To me it is like comparing the D40 to the 30D (I would then choose the 30D)..

On Canon lenses - the 17-85 is you mentioned got slated in early reviews when it was a very expensive lens. Now it is less expensive the reviews can be put in better context. However it is not a star choice in the canon line up. The 17-55 f2.8 IS is very highly rated, as is the 24-105 f4L IS. The 28-135 IS is a solid lens that is relatively old, so excellent value...

Ron LHeureux wrote:.

If you've followed Rockwell, you will find he shoots a lot with theCanon 5D. Saying the D40 is inferior is what someone who hasn'tused one says.Ron.

The Canon 5D is pretty much the only FF option.. but the rest of the way down the line he clearly favors Nikon. There's nothing wrong with that, but he is a blogger, an opinion site, not a review site..

The D40 may indeed work very welll for people. And does take advantage of newer sensor processor technology. but it drops support for many cost concious lenses and some features that some of us can not see how they were related to price..

We could of course ask Nikon..As we can see the D70 was upated to the D80 in model number..

The D40 is a lesser number... why not D55 or D60? Because while on it's own it is enough camer fo many people, it is not an upgrade to the D50..

If you don't need the features, or as people like rockwell, use as a 2nd body.. the D40 is a great 6mp option..

The D40x at the moment in price just does not stack up well to other offerings in the 10 MP range. This may change as Nikon drops it frome initial release price..

Ken - KM 5Dhttp://www.cascadephotoworks.com..

Loganharpdawg wrote:.

LENS:I am considering the 28mm - 155mm lens for the canon (EF 28-135mmIS USM).I am considering the 18mm -135mm lens for the Nikon (DX Nikkor)..

The Canon lens will act like a (28 * 1.6) to (135 * 1.6) mm zoom would (on a film camera). (I.e., like a ~45mm to 216mm zoom).

The Nikon lens will act like an (18 * 1.5) to (135 * 1.5) mm zoom would (on a film camera). (I.e., like a 27mm to ~202mm zoom)..

D40 or D40x is just too slow. It can only take 3 pics a second at a lower jpeg file size. It can only do one fram a sec for the largest jpeg file size...

How do you find out what number you multiply the lens by ( you said 1.5*Xmm or 1.6*Xmm). Do you always multiply 1.5 (or 1.6) to the mm of the lens?..

I have looked at a lot of pics taken by both cameras. It seems the Nikon produces better results but with some noise. The canon seems to not be as sharp or detailed, but with no noise. Is this true, or is it just me??.

I think my deciding factor will be what lens I can get for the camera. If I can find an amazing lens (for not too much) for the canon, or for the Nikon, then I will get that lens and the corresponding camera..

I just looked at the 18-200mm Nikkor lens with VR. WOW!! That thing looks to be amazing, but a tad pricy..

Any lens recommendations? I would like an all around lens, like the Nikkor I mentioned above. But I want good results (resolution and what not). If I have to buy two lenses (one for close range) the I will. The option for a good all around lens seems to be more attractive...

The Canons have are somewhat less noisy at high ISOs, but for me, sharpness is a more important factor. The 18-200VR is a nice 1 lens solution for general photography. Again, you can go witha 2 lens solution, or even 3. Awide to mod zoom and a mid to fairly long zoom. A fast prime lens would be a good addition. Say a 50mm f1.8 or 85mm f2.8 macro.

A macro prime is pretty handy. Macro is for very close up photography. By the way, the D40 has less noise than the D40x.Ron.

D4018-5555-200VRSB400..

Loganharpdawg wrote:.

How do you find out what number you multiply the lens by ( you said1.5*Xmm or 1.6*Xmm). Do you always multiply 1.5 (or 1.6) to themm of the lens?.

Yes. For most affordable Canon bodies (Digital Rebel / XT / XTi, EOS 20D, EOS 30D), the crop factor is 1.6. For Nikon bodies, it is 1.5...

Loganharpdawg wrote:.

Dave Lewis wrote:.

I have owned the 18-135 IS lens for a long time. It is a wonderfullens on my 5D but is not nearly the wide angle you will be lookingfor, probably. The kit lens will cover that end for you. Why notbuy the camera body with the kit lens for $50 more then getsomething beyond it for longer shooting.Dave Lewis.

Thanks Dave,I thought about getting the kit lens because I was afraid it wouldnot be wide enough like you said. I never have used it so I wouldhave no idea. I read reviews saying the kit lens is not that good.It is a cheap lens, but I do not want to spend another Large amountof money for a good wide angle lens..

Is that kit lens any good? If not, is there a wide angle lens youwould recommend (it does not have to zoom. If I got the cannon, Iwould still get the 28mm - 135mm lens).

Any good? I would say it's "lots" good, especially for the price. (G)Dave Lewis..