1. First of all, tell me if you worry that much about company's future when you buy a Refrigerator, TV, Microwave etc. as you do when you buy a camera!.
2. Do you expect your DSLR and lenses to last till the demise of the company happens? Even so then why worry? Your camera and lenses will continue to work as they do now. Prices of bodies will continue to come down, while quality improves. (Will you buy a 300D now, when XTi is available?)..
3. Buy whichever camera offers great value NOW, and rest assured. The lenses will continue to be available for many years down the line..
Kiongku wrote:.
Hi everybody,First off I want to excuse myself because I know there are probablytons of other similar threads but unfortunately, I cannot get allmy answers from them..
I'm a newbie in photography and thinking about buying my first camera.I'm going to Hong Kong this august and was looking into the entrylevel dSLR cameras available from the 2 name brand Canon and Nikon..
I'm looking into a system that is a well balanced all around typethat will last.. Ranging from shooting people still and action tolandscape to macros.Hence, I'll probably be sticking with Canon or Nikon with thisdecision.A friend of mine who is a Nikon user mind you told me to go for Canon.According to him, Canon holds a great future in dSLR. How much isthat true?.
My list has been narrowed down to the Canon EOS-400d and Nikon d80.From the multiple reviews I've read, Nikon d80 seems to be favored.But heeding the advice of my friend, is Canon EOS-400d with itsCMOS sensor really worh it against Nikon in the long run.I also heard about the dust cleaning system but seems that it isnot as great as it sounds to be.Hence, I want the opinions of more experienced users whether Ishould go into the Canon or Nikon sets..
Regards, Ajayhttp://picasaweb.google.com/ajay0612..
Why Limit yourself?.
A) There are several companies with a good future in DSLRs and Digital Photography...
B) Long before any of the current players vanish, you may want to upgrade anyway..
I would expand your exploration to includeSony (my favorite at this level), Pentax, and Olympus..
I think for the current price the Sony A100 is the best deal with it's level of features. Design and if you are concerned.. one of the largest companies on the planet backing it..
Key features Not on one or both Nikons & Canons in this range:In camera stabalization so ALL lenses are stablized.
Support or all Sony/Minolta A-mount lenses from Sony, Minolta, and 3rd party makers.Spot MeteringAuto bracketing To quickly take three images with adjust exposure...Wireless flash trigging via the built in flashThe ability to shoot Fine JPGs at 3 FPS until the card is full.
The key is there are at least 6-8 great cameras to consider in this range including the Canon and Nikons. Take a few moments look at them all before narrowing your choices.Ken - KM 5Dhttp://www.cascadephotoworks.com..
If you're living in the US, purchasing a camera in Hong Kong is not a very good idea because neither manufacturer will honor the warranty in this country. Why not purchase the camera now and learn how to use it so you can get good pictures on your trip..
Kiongku wrote:.
I'm going to Hong Kong this august and was looking into the entrylevel dSLR cameras available from the 2 name brand Canon and Nikon..
Larry Bermanhttp://BermanGraphics.com..
Well actually the place where I live have most stuff more expensive than in HK or does not have it.Thats the reason I'm saving for this trip..
Well, I think may be I want to root for something that is readily available.Using of ebay, mail order is out of the way..
The only window for me will be my short trip in HK so everything will be done in shops. So I'm short on time to look everywhere.And from what I hear, Nikon and Canon are the most readily available.Probably the reason I decided to choose those 2 brands now..
So I will not have much time to test and decide the cameras and look for a good lens...
Kiongku wrote:.
Well actually the place where I live have most stuff more expensivethan in HK or does not have it.Thats the reason I'm saving for this trip..
Well, I think may be I want to root for something that is readilyavailable.Using of ebay, mail order is out of the way.The only window for me will be my short trip in HK so everythingwill be done in shops. So I'm short on time to look everywhere.And from what I hear, Nikon and Canon are the most readily available.Probably the reason I decided to choose those 2 brands now..
So I will not have much time to test and decide the cameras andlook for a good lens..
Make fine cameras. For that matter, so do the companies that Ken mentioned..
Off hand I would recomend the Nikon, but Nikon doesn't honor it's warranty in one place if you bought it in another. I beleive that Canon Does..
So, if you're not a native of Hong Kong, then you would be better off getting a camera with a warranty that will be honored where you live..
Dave..
Great Idea.Then I guess I'll have to go on site and check it out with the shops then.From one I can both nikon and canon are favorable after all.The finer details will make the difference I guess...
On the other hand, I do have family living in Hong Kong.Maybe that can help with the warranty issue...
The most important issue is how comfortable it feels in your hands and whether the controls fall naturally under your fingers; this is something you will only know when you try them out. Technical differences between one camera and another are much less important than this. I went to a camera shop a few weeks ago convinced that I was going to buy a Nikon D40 on the basis of reading reviews, asking advice etc... and came out 15 minutes later with a pentax K100D because it just fitted my hands better and I found the controls easier to use. So don't rule any camera out until you've picked it up..
Happy huntingMike..
Both cameras are so close that the user will make the difference. Both companies will be here for some time. Nikon has the edge on the kit lens. IMO Nikon's flash system is a bit better..
What it comes down to is your personal preference. I personally find the Canon too small for my hands and the menus a disaster. Go to a shop, try'm out, see which one fits your hand and on which one you can easily- change AF points- change aperture/shutter speed- select another whitebalance- change metering method.Don't wait for the Nikon D-whatever, have fun now!http://www.flickr.com/photos/j_wijnands/..
Kiongku wrote:.
I'm looking into a system that is a well balanced all around typethat will last..
Makes sense..
Hence, I'll probably be sticking with Canon or Nikon with thisdecision..
Makes sense..
A friend of mine who is a Nikon user mind you told me to go for Canon.According to him, Canon holds a great future in dSLR. How much isthat true?.
Both companies have great futures in DSLR. For your level and type of photography either will work well..
My list has been narrowed down to the Canon EOS-400d and Nikon d80..
On a camera for camera basis I think the D80 is better, but you are comparing the bottom of the range canon with the mid range D80. Also consider the Canon 30D (or 20D)?.
I also heard about the dust cleaning system but seems that it isnot as great as it sounds to be..
Some users say it helps. Some say it doesn't. It certainly won't hurt, but you are right not to bother about it too much..
Hence, I want the opinions of more experienced users whether Ishould go into the Canon or Nikon sets..
Honestly do not get scared off Nikon by your friend (I am a Canon user). Try them both in store and you will soon gravitate to one or the other. You will not be disappointed by either...
I'm looking into a system that is a well balanced all around typethat will last.. Ranging from shooting people still and action tolandscape to macros.Hence, I'll probably be sticking with Canon or Nikon with thisdecision..
I used to own a Konica-Minolta 7D and was starting to get very frustrated with the lack of lenses compared to what was available from Canon and Nikon. Then, when Sony took over and released new lenses, their prices are extortionate, sometimes as much as 50% more expensive than a C or N equivalent..
When my 7D died, I replaced it with a Nikon D200 and have not looked back. So, while there are about 6 different cameras available at your price/feature point, only two systems will allow you to grow if you choose to...
Dweerden wrote:.
I'm looking into a system that is a well balanced all around typethat will last.. Ranging from shooting people still and action tolandscape to macros.Hence, I'll probably be sticking with Canon or Nikon with thisdecision..
I used to own a Konica-Minolta 7D and was starting to get veryfrustrated with the lack of lenses compared to what was availablefrom Canon and Nikon. Then, when Sony took over and released newlenses, their prices are extortionate, sometimes as much as 50%more expensive than a C or N equivalent..
When my 7D died, I replaced it with a Nikon D200 and have notlooked back. So, while there are about 6 different camerasavailable at your price/feature point, only two systems will allowyou to grow if you choose to..
To help him see if his idea of growing and yours are the same...Why not list the lenses you have and the price paid..
What you say is currently true for a certain level of photographer, it is not universal..
My three Sigma lenses have served me well and are much less expensive options all stablized then trying to do that on the Canon side. Indeed if I were looking to spend more and had a need, the Canon / Nikon Systems at the 30D / D80 level and above are excellent. Below that for people not looking to spend thousands on lenses like I have been on this system Canon and Nikon provide less complete camera feature sets, and the ability to build good lens collections..
This is what I shoot now: All stablized..Sigma 10-20mm $500Sigma 24-135 2.8-4.5 $120 (now around $300 at last places stocking this)Sigma 70-300 APO DG $ 199.
I could also get that well reviewed Tamron 18-250 for around $400.. stablized on the A100 as a vaction.. lens etc..
You can not on the Nikon/Canon systems cover 10-300mm stabalized.. for the same price..
If he thinks he will someday want to spend $1700 for a 70-200 2.8 lens alone. I think you are right given Sony's current prices. But then again Tamron has one coming out for Sony this summer/fall and there is rumor that the Sigma might be the first HSM lens for Sony..
But the Sony IS system gives him more freedom to choose good 3rd party lenses that you can stablize on Canon or Nikon..
Ken - KM 5Dhttp://www.cascadephotoworks.com..
Nikon makes excellent photography equipment but because of a very large investment in EF lenses, I've always used Canon SLR/DSLR cameras..
I've never know of anyone who was refused service on a Canon camera, that was under warranty, no matter where it was purchased or no matter what type of warranty (USA or International) it had..
Canon services all their cameras with no questions asked provide the camera has a legal Canon serial number...
Ken,.
If I recall correctly, I received some valuable advice from you in my early DSLR days, back when I was just getting my feet wet with the excellent KM 7D. Had it not died the infamous AS death, I'm sure I would still be in that system..
I would like to emphasize that I'm not talking only about lenses but accessories as well - although, quite clearly, lenses are the single most important element of any photographic system. Obviously, when acquiring the D200, I was giving up on in-body stabilization and I did so with a great deal of trepidation. However, I must say that I don't really miss it that much. I found that it wasn't that useful at short focal lengths and not overly helpful at longer ones. I have to agree with the prevailing consensus that lens-based IS is more effective than that found in-camera. With my Sigma 70-200 coupled with a 1.4xTC on the 7D, I didn't really find anything greater than a 1-stop advantage..
The only VR lens I now own is the 18-200. Sometimes I leave VR on but often it's not. Now, I should say that I photograph sports most often and shutter speed is king of that domain. If you're more into static subjects, then SSS/IS/VR will certainly help..
Anyway, I would have to argue that someone new to the hobby of photography has no idea what avenue he will ultimately pursue and thus it is important to keep as many options open as possible. I own, and have owned, a number of third-party lenses. I've been happy with some and displeased with others. However, the fact remains that a number of lenses made by Sigma, et al, are not even available in the A-mount so, when you couple that with N or C's own lineup, there's a very clear advantage to those two camps, regardless of your budget..
I'm not at all slagging any other brand or model of camera. I am merely trying to give someone the benefit of my experience. Once you've become invested in even a few pieces of glass, it becomes a gut-wrenching decision to ditch those. Hopefully, that can be prevented...
Dweerden wrote:.
Ken,.
If I recall correctly, I received some valuable advice from you inmy early DSLR days, back when I was just getting my feet wet withthe excellent KM 7D. Had it not died the infamous AS death, I'msure I would still be in that system..
I would like to emphasize that I'm not talking only about lensesbut accessories as well - although, quite clearly, lenses are thesingle most important element of any photographic system.Obviously, when acquiring the D200, I was giving up on in-bodystabilization and I did so with a great deal of trepidation.However, I must say that I don't really miss it that much. I foundthat it wasn't that useful at short focal lengths and not overlyhelpful at longer ones. I have to agree with the prevailingconsensus that lens-based IS is more effective than that foundin-camera. With my Sigma 70-200 coupled with a 1.4xTC on the 7D, Ididn't really find anything greater than a 1-stop advantage..
The only VR lens I now own is the 18-200. Sometimes I leave VR onbut often it's not. Now, I should say that I photograph sportsmost often and shutter speed is king of that domain. If you'remore into static subjects, then SSS/IS/VR will certainly help..
Anyway, I would have to argue that someone new to the hobby ofphotography has no idea what avenue he will ultimately pursue andthus it is important to keep as many options open as possible. Iown, and have owned, a number of third-party lenses. I've beenhappy with some and displeased with others. However, the factremains that a number of lenses made by Sigma, et al, are not evenavailable in the A-mount so, when you couple that with N or C's ownlineup, there's a very clear advantage to those two camps,regardless of your budget..
I'm not at all slagging any other brand or model of camera. I ammerely trying to give someone the benefit of my experience. Onceyou've become invested in even a few pieces of glass, it becomes agut-wrenching decision to ditch those. Hopefully, that can beprevented..
From day one, the IS has been of major Help to me. And I have never had steady hands. But of course if you always shoot in good lighting IS is not an issue..
There are also times when I needed to hold the camera with one hand that I know it helped on what would be an easy two handshot..
If you don't need or use IS lenses.. then the system cost is idenitcal except for things like the wireless flash adapter on Canon for $160ish that is free in the A100.
Personally I have not had a problem finding the accessories I need. Even for the KM 5D..
Now we have two views for our OP to look at, and no absolute truth..
This is 40mm at 2 stops 1/13 KIT Lens.
Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.
This is 90mm at 3 stops 1/13 $120 Sigma lens..
Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.
Ken - KM 5Dhttp://www.cascadephotoworks.com..
Despite the virtual fist-fights that go on here, any of the DSLR from any of the manufacturers would do you well. You will find one suits you very slightly better than the others, and go with that one. There is no one super camera maker, because if there was it would sell to 100% of the people who buy DSLR. No company is even close to that..
Every manufacturer has it's advantages and disadvantages. You pick and choose your factors. Canon is the noise-free king. Nikon is the meter master. Olympus wins on sensor cleaning. Sigma does it differently with it's sensor.
Pentax is returning to it's enthusiasts roots. It's all good. You just pick the one you like and the one you think you will like two years from now..
It's pointless trying to second-guess the market, because tomorrow could bring about profound changes that could totally alter the market as it stands. All it takes is two or three stunning cameras from an underdog and two or three bad ones from one of the leaders and the whole balance changes.You name it, I've broken it...
Thank you all for your great replies..
Well I'll probably opt for canon if the 400d feels comfortable enough for me..
Seems a couple of friends of mine are supporting my choice to get a canon and I even know of a local supplier in case of emergency (my friend knows the shop).
But as you all said and quite reasonable suggestion also is to wait till I get my hand on the cameras before deciding.I got a hold of 350d earlier today and it was not that bad..
I'll wait till August to try them.Thx again for everyone's help...
I would say hold all the brands, Canon - Nikon - Pentax - Sony - Olympus - and you'll know instantly which feels better than the rest. Image Quality wise, who but an expert would ever tell the difference between one picture or the next, so it comes down to price and feel.btw, Good luck with your new Nikon... ..
You pays your money and you takes your chances. Go to the shop and have a bit of a play with both - whichever is most comfortable in YOUR hands is the one I'd say to get. You won't notice any difference in the images in the real world.Rob.
If you're bored...http://braveulysses.deviantart.com/gallery.
'Have the courage to be ignorant of a great number of things, in order to avoid the calamity of being ignorant of everything.' Sydney Smith (1771-1845)..
Kiongku wrote:.
Thank you all for your great replies..
Well I'll probably opt for canon if the 400d feels comfortableenough for me..
That's a valid argument..
Seems a couple of friends of mine are supporting my choice to get acanon and I even know of a local supplier in case of emergency (myfriend knows the shop).
And that seems, to me, a rather weird reasoning..
But as you all said and quite reasonable suggestion also is to waittill I get my hand on the cameras before deciding.I got a hold of 350d earlier today and it was not that bad..
Try and hold at least one or two other brands before making up your mind..
I'll wait till August to try them.Thx again for everyone's help..
Good luck and hope to see some good ones from you.Don't wait for the Nikon D-whatever, have fun now!http://www.flickr.com/photos/j_wijnands/..
1. I really won't advice a newcomer to take a decision based on HANDLING. A new product always needs a bit of customised learning. And no DSLR is so bad at basic designing to leave out just because of handling aspects..
2. Handling etc. might be important for a seasoned pro, who might have developed a particular style and feels comfortable with particular set/placement of controls and does not have time or inclination to change that for a new product. Not relevant for a hobbyist or newbie, who has no such limitations. So one should concentrate on finding best value for his money..
Stevef1961 wrote:.
I would say hold all the brands, Canon - Nikon - Pentax - Sony -Olympus - and you'll know instantly which feels better than therest. Image Quality wise, who but an expert would ever tell thedifference between one picture or the next, so it comes down toprice and feel.btw, Good luck with your new Nikon... .
Regards, Ajayhttp://picasaweb.google.com/ajay0612..
I'm not sure I agree with this. I base quite a lot of buying decisions on what intuitively "feels right", unless there's some particular function or feature I require which contradicts this..
In my experience, you can get used to most things but you'll never get the same satisfaction and enjoyment out of something that just doesn't feel right. I have a history with film Nikons and some limited legacy glass - not enough to be a deal breaker - so I checked out the D80 as a first DSLR. I don't have big hands but the camera felt cramped and wasn't comfortable. The D200 was good, but it's far too expensive for me. The 30D was fine and about the same price as the D80. I don't have any strong brand loyalty and both systems are excellent, so I'll probably get the Canon...
There is an article here on the finer details http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/nikon-vs-canon.htm.
That you are asking about...
Beware of buyers remorse. There's a rule that about a week after buying one brand of camera you will wish you bought the other brand .
But the best way to get over it is to go out shooting. I remorse and gripe about my lenses, my lack of IS, etc... on my 400D but when I am out shooting my mind is not on those things...
Please advise, anyone, how I can post a question about digital image quality..
I am a new kid on the block with my Nikon D200 and I am wanting to optimise graininessto minimise it..
When I shoot to RAW and accidentally under-expose I need to know how to recover detail without golf-ball grain.Please helpThanks..
Please advise, anyone, how I can post a question about digital imagequality.I am a new kid on the block with my Nikon D200 and I am wanting tooptimise graininessto minimise it.When I shoot to RAW and accidentally under-expose I need to know howto recover detail without golf-ball grain.Please helpThanks.
Wow, that's a meaty camera for a beginner. Congratulations....
A few things:.
1. Since this is a new question, you'd be better off starting a new thread and giving it an appropriate title, like 'noise on Nikon D200'. This thread has been about the merits of different types of camera and people may not notice your query here. It might be worth posting the question on the Nikon forum where other D200 users may be able to offer specific help..
2. Noise should not be a major issue on any modern DSLR unless you really push it to extremes, i.e. use high ISO and make big enlargements. I suspect that 'golf-ball grain' is an exaggeration (I hope it is!). My experience (with a different camera) is that for A4-sized prints, ISO up to 800 gives excellent results, and noise only becomes visible at ISO 1600 - even then it is not major, just the small price you pay for being able to take photos in dim light without a flash. So use the lowest ISO setting you can (e.g.
3. Noise can be reduced using software like photoshop elements; it is not too hard to select parts of a picture where the noise shows up (it is more obvious on smooth areas like blue sky) and reduce the noise. There are some specialist programs that will probably do a better job, like 'noise ninja'. Be aware that reducing noise involves smoothing / averaging of adjacent pixels, you wil inevitably lose a little resolution as well..
4. If you underexpose using RAW then you have made a good mistake, because any RAW conversion program (do you have Nikon Capture? Or photoshop elements?) allows you to correct for this easily. It is generally better to underexpose than overexpose, if you must get the exposure wrong! if in doubt you can bracket - take several pictures at slightly different exposures, and then see which is best later. I think your camera can do automatically. In the longer term, learn how to read a histogram which will tell you whether a shot is well exposed as soon as you have taken it..
Good luckMike..
Anything in the entry level dSLR's are all good. It really depends on the user though. I tested a Canon Rebel and a Nikon D70 and felt that the D70 was built better. I felt if I dropped it it would still hold up whereas the Rebel would have broke. Also the D70 was a little larger and fit my hands better..
Each entry level dSLR has their own pluses and minuses but overall they are all pretty even..
I have now upgraded to a D200 with a few lenses. I do wish Nikon had the lens selection that Canon does but I feel that the Nikon lenses are more than adequate..
As well it all depends on what the usage will be. If you plan on doing a lot of low light shooting Canon seems to do better. Nikon is close but not quite as good. Other than that they are both pretty good at everything else.Photography and Graphic DesignPortfolio - http://www.atlanticexpressinc.comPrints - http://www.atlanticexpressions.com..
Thanks MikeGood advice which I will heed.Please let me know how I start a new 'thread'.This is the first time using the dpr forumRichard..
Please let me know how I start a new 'thread'.This is the first time using the dpr forumRichard.
Come out of this thread (i.e. go to 'beginners questions')At the top, after 'Actions', click on 'new thread'...Mike..
Kiongku wrote:.
I'm a newbie in photography and thinking about buying my first camera.I'm going to Hong Kong this august and was looking into the entrylevel dSLR cameras available from the 2 name brand Canon and Nikon..
I'm looking into a system that is a well balanced all around typethat will last.. Ranging from shooting people still and action tolandscape to macros.Hence, I'll probably be sticking with Canon or Nikon with this decision.A friend of mine who is a Nikon user mind you told me to go for Canon.According to him, Canon holds a great future in dSLR. How much isthat true?.
My list has been narrowed down to the Canon EOS-400d and Nikon d80.From the multiple reviews I've read, Nikon d80 seems to be favored.But heeding the advice of my friend, is Canon EOS-400d with it's CMOSsensor really worh it against Nikon in the long run.I also heard about the dust cleaning system but seems that it is notas great as it sounds to be.Hence, I want the opinions of more experienced users whether I shouldgo into the Canon or Nikon sets..
One thing I haven't seen addressed yet.what do you want to do? Buying a camera is not "I'll buy and see what it can do, what do I want to do and then I'll buy.".
If you are going to shoot action on occasion, then either camera (its lenes, flashes, etc will be fine). I happen to have Canon. Why? 'Cause when I started years ago, some one gave me an Elan II. I bought lenses and flashes for that camera. Well, I also had a Minolta Xtsi and QTi. I bought lenses and a 3rd party flash for that camera..
Because Canon seemed to be clear in the direction they were going with Digital and really wanted to be a leader in the field and Minolta (then Konica-Minolta, then Konica, then Sony) at the time dragged their silly feet, I opted for a used 20D. Would the Maxxum D7 have been a good camera for me. Don't know. I mainly shoot sports and needed the 5fps the 20D offered..
So, back to my earlier Q.are you mainly sports? are you occasional sports? If mainly, get a camera with a higher frame-rate. If occasional, choose one and go..
Also, look at what accessories are necessary for you. Minolta would not allow me to use a "hot shoe to pc-sync" adapter for my portrait light kit. Canon would. However, where my Minolta had on-camera wireless flash, Canon does not. You have to by a more expensive flash model or separate trigger. So don't forget this aspect either...