Bdyoung wrote:.

Hello all,.

I have been doing a bunch of research online for about 3 months now,and am abnout ready to make a purchase. I have no dslr experience,so I want something that will allow me to have some fun and take goodpics quicky (possibly using auto program modes) , but still allow theflexibility to use some manual settings as I grow and want morecontrol..

I am very interested in photography at least as a hobby and maybeeven as a career( who knows?).

I have looked alot at the reviews for some Nikon and Canon dslr.(They seem to be the most popular), and truth be told, really likethe Nikon d40 or d80. Althought recently I have looked at reviewsfor Canon dslr's as well..

I am sort of leaning toward the Nikon since my wife use to be intofilm a few years ago. (She has a Nikon film slr with 3 lenses) So, Icould use her lenses.(except the d40 which has no lense motor?).

1. Do I seem to be on the right track?.

2. Does having the Nikon lenses really make it worth sticking withNikon?.

3. If someone were buying a dslr as a starter, but hoping to breakinto the business with that same dslr (at leat initially) what wouldbe a good camera to buy? (Ignoring what I have said I like just apure recommendation).

Thanks to any who respond, I appreciate any comment or suggestion..

THanks again.....

First, never buy whats "popular" buy what suits you, Second, a camera is just a tool, on a shelf, it cannot take a single shot, or compose a shot without a user, or know if it's metering a pile of dirt or a gold ingot. All of my purchases have been based on features, not what everybody else is using. use this site's fantastic "side by side" feature & check other sites as well. Last, learn & never stop trying to learn..

25 years as a freelancer,(news,magazine, wedding photography) camera equip. over the years: Practica MLT, Canon A1, Minolta 9xi, 7xi, Dimage Z1,Fuji 5200,Canon S2,Pentax K100D,Olympus 380(see my Z1 shots athttp://www.photobucket.com ALBUM NAME: buckl the COMMUNITY album was done with the Z1, and most of the photos in the album:Other were w/the Z1)..

Thanks for the advice! By the way, I did not mean I want wants popular, I just was stating my observation  .

I have done alot of feature comparison and I like the d80, but I friend of mine recommended the d40 to start since the d80 was not as novice friendly as the d40 (his opinion).

Based on the features though I prefer a d80, but I do not want to get frustrated by a camera that is too "over my head" since I am just starting out..

Thanks for the reply....

Brian..

Can you list the lenses from your wife's camera? Depending on the age they might not meter or auto focus on the d80 either. This will help with the groups input..

Mike..

Bdyoung wrote:.

Thanks for the advice! By the way, I did not mean I want wantspopular, I just was stating my observation  I have done alot of feature comparison and I like the d80, but Ifriend of mine recommended the d40 to start since the d80 was not asnovice friendly as the d40 (his opinion)Based on the features though I prefer a d80, but I do not want to getfrustrated by a camera that is too "over my head" since I am juststarting out..

Thanks for the reply....

Brian.

IMO the d80 is easier to use than the d40. Not having a seperate lcd kills it for me. Don't let the d80 scare you away. I've seen complete novices use this camera well. It's a much better deal IMO..

Http://www.flickr.com/photos/djmsmc/..

Thanks for the input, I really do like the d80 overall.. I think the feature set is much wider and the kit lense looks like a better deal as well (compared w/ the d40). As I said, I have done alot of online research, but I think my next step is to go to a dealer and get some hands on research done..

Thank you for the reply....Brian..

The D80 is a definite step up in the right direction, better than entry level, smaller and not so fully featured as the D200. Remember you can always set simple overrides for the various exposure controls. Say it over-exposes a sky in a particular location, then dial in a -value EV to suit..

You'll not need to upgrade so quickly with that model. If your buget goes that far then put Nikon D200/Canon30D/PentaxD10 side by side. They should be viewed not as difficult to use cameras, but cameras with additional potential. If you choose without looking at the logos you'd probably opt for the Pentax.John.Please visit me at:http://www.pbase.com/johnfr/backtothebridgehttp://www.pbase.com/johnfr..

Hi,.

Ignore the encouragement from the sidelines and ask yourself if jumping in at the deep end is really a good idea..

Here's a few points that worry me;.

1, Most cameras come with lenses these days. Your wife's lenses will probably duplicate the one you get. So that isn't really important..

2, You don't say what experience of photography - if any - you have. Would it help if I point out that equipment is not very important?.

What is important is having a good eye for a picture and then getting it on to the CCD. A point & shoot will do that far easier than messing around with something you are not really sure about..

3, Once you've reached the point where you know what you are doing, you can pick and chose a seriously expensive camera and get it right. Or do you have money to throw away (this is not a good business plan, btw)?.

4, In your shoes (ie if hellbent on a dSLR) I'd also be looking at cameras that have a wide range of lenses available for them that are designed for digital, rather than designed to use old lenses and only part use them by cropping out the centres..

5, I'd also be looking for a camera that produces good pictures without the need to mess around with each one for half an hour or more, (that's what the experienced people do with RAW), and go instead for something that doesn't force you to use either RAW or an over compressed JPEG file..

6, Have you looked at this thread?.

Http://forums.dpreview.com/...forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=23950058.

Regards, David..

Bdyoung wrote:.

Hello all,.

I have been doing a bunch of research online for about 3 months now,and am abnout ready to make a purchase. I have no dslr experience,so I want something that will allow me to have some fun and take goodpics quicky (possibly using auto program modes) , but still allow theflexibility to use some manual settings as I grow and want morecontrol..

Hm, well, that describes just about every sub $1500 body..

I am very interested in photography at least as a hobby and maybeeven as a career( who knows?).

You may have the talent and luck. If not, it's a nice hobby..

I have looked alot at the reviews for some Nikon and Canon dslr.(They seem to be the most popular), and truth be told, really likethe Nikon d40 or d80. Althought recently I have looked at reviewsfor Canon dslr's as well..

You may want to check pentax and olympus as well..

I am sort of leaning toward the Nikon since my wife use to be intofilm a few years ago. (She has a Nikon film slr with 3 lenses) So, Icould use her lenses.(except the d40 which has no lense motor?).

1. Do I seem to be on the right track?.

Sounds like it. Depends on which lenses she has if that should be a factor. There have been some very nice lenses in the film days and some very, very bad ones. In the first category the 28-80D comes to mind, in the second category the 28-100 for example..

2. Does having the Nikon lenses really make it worth sticking withNikon?.

Well, we can't look into your camera bag from here so that's tricky to say..

3. If someone were buying a dslr as a starter, but hoping to breakinto the business with that same dslr (at leat initially) what wouldbe a good camera to buy? (Ignoring what I have said I like just apure recommendation).

Anything you would learn wit and learn to shoot manually with. Could be a D40, could be a D80, even a 400d..

Thanks to any who respond, I appreciate any comment or suggestion..

THanks again.....

Hope this helps..

Don't blow most of your budget in one go on a body with kitlens. Rather get something simpler and keep room in your budget for an extra lens or flash..

Don't wait for the Nikon D-whatever, have fun now!http://www.flickr.com/photos/j_wijnands/..

Here's a few points that worry me;.

1, Most cameras come with lenses these days. Your wife's lenses willprobably duplicate the one you get. So that isn't really important..

I agree on this point, I mentioned the other lenses because I DO have them, but that fact is far, far down the list of my influences in camera selection..

2, You don't say what experience of photography - if any - you have.Would it help if I point out that equipment is not very important?.

Some P&S messing around, nothing serious. My understanding is that while a dslr is not going to be as "easy" to use, it is going to allow for more freedom in the future. I am not saying I am going to go buy a d200 tomorrow (yikes), but I am interested in something that will make things fun and easy to learn, but still allow for more control as I grow in photography..

4, In your shoes (ie if hellbent on a dSLR) I'd also be looking atcameras that have a wide range of lenses available for them that aredesigned for digital, rather than designed to use old lenses and onlypart use them by cropping out the centres..

Any suggestions?.

Thanks so much for the great info and advice!!!-Brian..

BuffaloMike wrote:.

Can you list the lenses from your wife's camera? Depending on theage they might not meter or auto focus on the d80 either. This willhelp with the groups input..

Mike.

I am at work and do not have them here, but I believe they are nikkor af ??I am not sure if I got that right, I'll have to check them...

If they are af they should autofocus and meter on the 80, just meter on the 40...

BuffaloMike wrote:.

If they are af they should autofocus and meter on the 80, just meteron the 40..

Just found out they are nikkor af... thanks for the info...

I was wondering... if someone were looking at a d40 to start with, would lense selection for the d40 be compatible for the d80 or d200? (as in, if I am building a collection of lenses that I plan on keeping from camera to camera, how well will something that will mount, meter, and auto focus across models>)..

To sort of restate me last post about nikon lenses working on a d40 body and d80....

I understand that lenses for the d40 would need thier own focus motor, my question is....

If I am buying new glass, how common are lenses with drive motors? Or are these sort of a slim line for d40's..

Thanks to everyone who has responded, I am learning alot!!!-Brian..

Bdyoung wrote:.

Here's a few points that worry me;.

1, Most cameras come with lenses these days. Your wife's lenses willprobably duplicate the one you get. So that isn't really important..

I agree on this point, I mentioned the other lenses because I DO havethem, but that fact is far, far down the list of my influences incamera selection..

Good..

2, You don't say what experience of photography - if any - you have.Would it help if I point out that equipment is not very important?.

Some P&S messing around, nothing serious. My understanding is thatwhile a dslr is not going to be as "easy" to use, it is going toallow for more freedom in the future. I am not saying I am going togo buy a d200 tomorrow (yikes), but I am interested in something thatwill make things fun and easy to learn, but still allow for morecontrol as I grow in photography..

Well, um, a lot of people have expensive cameras and lenses hanging round their necks and they are set up as P&S's if you look closely... It's a good starting point..

4, In your shoes (ie if hellbent on a dSLR) I'd also be looking atcameras that have a wide range of lenses available for them that aredesigned for digital, rather than designed to use old lenses and onlypart use them by cropping out the centres..

Any suggestions?.

There was the very gentlest of hints in the thread I mentioned..

But I happen to like Olympus and Leica most: the cameras are designed by and for photographers, rather than to please the marketing dept. Both offer excellent colours and low compression jpg's (which I like) and fit the hands. In the "FourThirds" range they offer almost anything you could wish for in the lens line. I could go out and spend 10,000 on their top of the range lenses but am happy with the kit lenses that came with the E-500. (If anyone has 10,000 they don't want and would care to e-mail me... ).

Thanks so much for the great info and advice!!!.

Part of the service..

Regards, David..

The ability to use existing lenses is a good point for the D80. The D40 is far too crippled tio allow one to grow and really get into using it..

For starting from scratch, I would recommend Pentax...

Sorry David but I'm going to disagree with much of your points..

Ignore the encouragement from the sidelines and ask yourself ifjumping in at the deep end is really a good idea..

Deep end is relative and vague. It could be financial or it could be from learning. AFAIK we don't the posters financial situation and I'm not sure learning on a DSLR is any harder than on a P&S..

1, Most cameras come with lenses these days. Your wife's lenses willprobably duplicate the one you get. So that isn't really important..

This really confuses me. How can they be duplicates of lenses he hasn't bought? Having lenses already is a HUGE advantage as long as the lenses are decent and there is no huge reason to go with another brand. His wife might have a single dupe kit lens but AFAIK he said she had several. Last I checked no DSLR comes with several lenses so at most he may end up with a single dupe lens, assuming he even goes for the kit lens..

2, You don't say what experience of photography - if any - you have.Would it help if I point out that equipment is not very important?.

I would agree with this somewhat but only slightly. You can just as easily say that giving a new photographer poor equipment increases the odds that they will never enjoy the hobby..

What is important is having a good eye for a picture and then gettingit on to the CCD. A point & shoot will do that far easier thanmessing around with something you are not really sure about..

How is that? Many P&S have enough options to confuse the beginner. Most (all?) DSLRs have the same beginner modes that the P&S have. It's just as easy to get confused by all the options on a P&S as it is with a DSLR. Only difference is you won't have to worry about taking a lens on and off (and size in most cases)..

3, Once you've reached the point where you know what you are doing,you can pick and chose a seriously expensive camera and get it right.Or do you have money to throw away (this is not a good business plan,btw)?.

Again, AFAIK we're not privy to the poster's financial situation. If price were a consideration then I'd agree with you but I didn't see that in the posts yet. Plus you appear to presume or imply that the "throwing away" the money on a P&S, which could run in the $300 to $600 range is a better or decent business plan..

4, In your shoes (ie if hellbent on a dSLR) I'd also be looking atcameras that have a wide range of lenses available for them that aredesigned for digital, rather than designed to use old lenses and onlypart use them by cropping out the centres..

I suppose that's a decent point. However it seems like even the lenses that are not designed for digital give impressive results. Or at least I never considered it an issue personally..

5, I'd also be looking for a camera that produces good pictureswithout the need to mess around with each one for half an hour ormore, (that's what the experienced people do with RAW), and goinstead for something that doesn't force you to use either RAW or anover compressed JPEG file..

I'm not sure people spend that much time but maybe they do. I know I don't, but I can't afford to. Then again, I think many of the people enjoy post processing (which I do not)..

It almost sounds like you're saying that a camera that shoots in RAW requires a lot of PP to get it right, as if, even the best trained and most experienced photographer could not get it right the first time, which kind of goes against the #2 point..

My only advice was going to be to hold each camera first. I've seen too many people say how they just couldn't stand the feel of one camera and how another just fit perfectly in their hands..

Misc equip : Canon 610, Canon 400D, Canon 10D (about to sell), EF 50mm f/1.8 II, EF 85mm f/1.8 USM, EF 24mm f/2.8 (not so sure about)..

I appreciate everyones comments, and have to say that while I have yet to make a decision, this forum has been great in reinforcing some of what I have learned through the research I have done the past 3 months. I said somewhere else in the thread that I believe my next step is to go to a camera shop and actually handle a few bodies to see if the "feel" factor leads one direction or another..

I have verified the type of lenses my wife has (3) and found they will meter and a/f on the d80, but just meter on the d40..

The d40 seems like a great starter, but I think it may leave me wanting more too quickly. Like I said, I am interested in photography as a hobby and maybe as a profession, and I think while the d80 may present a bit steeper learning curve, it has more of the options and flexibily I am looking for in my first camera..

I'll post again after I get to a shop and handle a few, could really make a big difference..

Thanks again for all the advice and comments. This site has been awesome, and the forum a big source of info..

-Brian..

Pretzelb wrote:.

Sorry David but I'm going to disagree with much of your points..

Ignore the encouragement from the sidelines and ask yourself ifjumping in at the deep end is really a good idea..

Deep end is relative and vague. It could be financial or it could befrom learning. AFAIK we don't the posters financial situation and I'mnot sure learning on a DSLR is any harder than on a P&S..

Really? As long as the P&S is switched on, has the lens cap removed and you are facing the subject....

1, Most cameras come with lenses these days. Your wife's lenses willprobably duplicate the one you get. So that isn't really important..

This really confuses me. How can they be duplicates of lenses hehasn't bought? Having lenses already is a HUGE advantage as long asthe lenses are decent and there is no huge reason to go with anotherbrand. His wife might have a single dupe kit lens but AFAIK he saidshe had several. Last I checked no DSLR comes with several lenses soat most he may end up with a single dupe lens, assuming he even goesfor the kit lens..

Most kit lenses are more or less the same range. Most photographers have fairly similar sets of lenses. Or are you the only one who hasn't got a x 3 or x4 that zooms from 28 or 35 mm in 35 mm film terms?.

Looking at you equipment list and seeing a 50 mm and 85 mm lens I can say with a lot of confidence that Leica, Olympus, Nikon, Pentax, Contax et cetera make similar lenses. They can be duplicates without you buying them....

There are several two lens kits on the market.

2, You don't say what experience of photography - if any - you have.Would it help if I point out that equipment is not very important?.

I would agree with this somewhat but only slightly. You can just aseasily say that giving a new photographer poor equipment increasesthe odds that they will never enjoy the hobby..

There isn't much poor equipment around these days..

What is important is having a good eye for a picture and then gettingit on to the CCD. A point & shoot will do that far easier thanmessing around with something you are not really sure about..

How is that? Many P&S have enough options to confuse the beginner.Most (all?) DSLRs have the same beginner modes that the P&S have.It's just as easy to get confused by all the options on a P&S as itis with a DSLR. Only difference is you won't have to worry abouttaking a lens on and off (and size in most cases)..

If you get confused by a P&S then a dSLR is recommended?.

3, Once you've reached the point where you know what you are doing,you can pick and chose a seriously expensive camera and get it right.Or do you have money to throw away (this is not a good business plan,btw)?.

Again, AFAIK we're not privy to the poster's financial situation. Ifprice were a consideration then I'd agree with you but I didn't seethat in the posts yet. Plus you appear to presume or imply that the"throwing away" the money on a P&S, which could run in the $300 to$600 range is a better or decent business plan..

Time spent learning the trade using easy and simple tools is never wasted. Most serious photographers have a P&S as well as a DSLR or two..

4, In your shoes (ie if hellbent on a dSLR) I'd also be looking atcameras that have a wide range of lenses available for them that aredesigned for digital, rather than designed to use old lenses and onlypart use them by cropping out the centres..

I suppose that's a decent point. However it seems like even thelenses that are not designed for digital give impressive results. Orat least I never considered it an issue personally..

They give a reasonable performance because only the cente portion is being used. The rest is just dead weight. Some would say it's like using tractor tyres on a sports car....

5, I'd also be looking for a camera that produces good pictureswithout the need to mess around with each one for half an hour ormore, (that's what the experienced people do with RAW), and goinstead for something that doesn't force you to use either RAW or anover compressed JPEG file..

I'm not sure people spend that much time but maybe they do. I know Idon't, but I can't afford to. Then again, I think many of the peopleenjoy post processing (which I do not)..

It almost sounds like you're saying that a camera that shoots in RAWrequires a lot of PP to get it right, as if, even the best trainedand most experienced photographer could not get it right the firsttime, which kind of goes against the #2 point..

When RAW is _needed_ a lot of time is needed in PP. And a lot of people shoot in RAW all the time, even when not needed. Becoming the best trained and most experienced photographer is great but hardly the standard to use when advising a newcomer..

My only advice was going to be to hold each camera first. I've seentoo many people say how they just couldn't stand the feel of onecamera and how another just fit perfectly in their hands..

You were talking about "poor equipment" earlier and now you say that holding the things is the only way to chose. Will it show up poor optical performance? How do left handed people chose cameras using your criteria?.

Regards, David..