Choose the P&S if you really need to keep a lid on the total size and weight of your gear or if you can spend only a few hundred dollars total on a system which can get *some* image (if not an optimal image) in a wide range of situations (moderate wide angle, moderate telephoto, macro, etc.).
In bright light, with still subjects, a good P&S will give you image quality comparable to a DSLR.But that's about all you can say for the P&S..
A DSLR will give you much better handling (shutter lag, shot-to-shot cycle times, ergonomics, etc.) and a much bigger & brighter viewfinder which add up to a much better chance of getting action shots of birds and other wildlife..
The DSLR will give you vastly better image quality in low light, which will enable shots a P&S couldn't handle like a fawn at dusk among the trees..
The DSLR will enable you to use really wide angle lenses. You can put a 10mm lens on a 1.6X crop body, yielding a field of view like a 16mm lens on your old AE-1. That's really wide much wider than you'll get from a P&S and can make stunning landscapes..
The DSLR will allow you to use a powerful dedicated flash which links intelligently to the camera's metering system, which makes for easy and effective use of flash to supplement available light. This can make a big difference in many compositions where the natural light is either too weak to permit a fast shutter speed, or simply too high contrast (i.e., deep, dark, ugly shadows.) (Yes, a P&S might offer fill-in flash but it will be nowhere near as powerful as a shoe-mounted strobe.).
For macro work on live subjects like insects, the DSLR will allow you to use a long-focal-length macro lens, which allows you to keep a much larger working distance to your subject. Where a P&S will require you to be inches away to get the macro shot, the DSLR might allow the same shot from several feet away. This can be very important when shooting subjects that will run or fly away if you get near them..
And one important factor unrelated to the images themselves: the joy of using the camera. If you learned to love photography using an SLR, you may well find that using a P&S just isn't much fun. Small viewfinders (or electronic viewfinders) + slow handling + tiny buttons just don't add up to the same experience you get when shooting with an SLR...
Tony S_ wrote:.
Choose the P&S if you really need to keep a lid on the total size and weight of your gear or if you can spend only a few hundred dollars total on a system which can get *some* image (if not an optimal image) in a wide range of situations (moderate wide angle, moderate telephoto, macro, etc.).
In bright light, with still subjects, a good P&S will give you image quality comparable to a DSLR.But that's about all you can say for the P&S..
Tony, you'd probably get more than a few dissenting opinions from Panasonic FZ20/30/50, Canon S2/3/5 IS owners and those who shoot with one or two of the other better bridge cameras..
A DSLR will give you much better handling (shutter lag, shot-to-shot cycle times, ergonomics, etc.) and a much bigger & brighter viewfinder which add up to a much better chance of getting action shots of birds and other wildlife..
What is it they say? A picture is worth a thousand words. Take a look at some of Trevor Carpenter's work: some of his FZ50 pics available on dpreview's Panasonic Talk forum:.
Airshow.
Http://forums.dpreview.com/...forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=24000417.
Http://forums.dpreview.com/...forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=24021317.
Insects, birds.
Http://forums.dpreview.com/...forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=24060265.
Insects.
Http://forums.dpreview.com/...forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=24092238.
And one important factor unrelated to the images themselves: the joy of using the camera. If you learned to love photography using an SLR, you may well find that using a P&S just isn't much fun. Small viewfinders (or electronic viewfinders) + slow handling + tiny buttons just don't add up to the same experience you get when shooting with an SLR..
Strictly personal experience, Tony, but I shot for years, make that decades, with a Ricoh XR-2 SLR. When they dragged me kicking and screaming into the digital realm a few months ago, I looked at DSLRs but kept coming back to the FZ50, which made a lot more sense to me. An inspiring zoom lens, all sorts of manual control possibilities, wonderful IS (the greatest thing since sliced bread) and a number of other factors led to my decision. I don't have a problem with any of the things you just mentioned. Guess it's a case of different strokes for different folks.All the best, birdermom!..
That to do insects and distant wildlife you can easily spend $1k on lenses to do it and do it somewhat properly (multiply by a factor of 5 if you want to take it seriously)Don't wait for the Nikon D-whatever, have fun now!http://www.flickr.com/photos/j_wijnands/..
Trouble is there's a lot between a P&S and a dSLR. Personally I think the P&S will be inadequate at times and the dSLR when fitted out properly with all the lenses needed will be expensive and heavy..
Trouble is (2) with dSLR's you like the ability to get just what you need for say bird shots then start yearning for the top of the rang ones... Have a look at a 300 mm f/28 Olympus for the "FourThirds" system (but don't look at the price) for example..
So I'd put my money on something like the Panasonic FZ50: light enough to carry around and will cover all the uses required, for the time being..
Regards, David..
Hay.
Before you make a choice with getting a dslr, take the time to do research on lenses too. A dslr is just a body, the lens is what makes the camera. Nikon, Olympus, Canon, Pentax, all have different systems. So you better be sure what kind of glass you want before you buy the body. There are third party lens makers too, Tamron, Sigma, Tonkina, so you wont be completey stuck with what Nikon, Canon or Pentax has. Also know that P&S will give you instaint good results, a dslr will give crappy results if you treat it like a P&S.
If you dont think you are willing to get really serious, then get a good P&S might be a better choice..
Hope that helps you in making a decision..
Marsbar.
Drebel XT/BG-E3EF 70-200 f/4L USMEF 28-105mm f/3.5-4.5 II USMEF 50mm f/1.8 IIS1-IS / S100 / oly Trip 35..
I've just made the swap from Prosumer, KM A200 to DSLR - Samsung GX-10 (read Pentax K10D)..
Initial thoughts are.....
In good light with still subject (landscapes) the Prosumer was pretty close quality wise to the DSLR, although still didn't resolve quite as much detail.
In low-light the prosumer didn't come close to the DSLR.
For responsiveness & functionality the DSLR is a great leap forward, really enjoying the ability to rapidly bracket RAW shots..
The DSLR is larger & weighs more although this really isn't that much of an issue - I do carry my camera around in my backpack whilst hiking too !!.
The DSLR has already cost me extra money - I decided I immediately wanted a better wide angle lens !!!.
I'm very pleased with the move to DSLR - it's given me much greater flexibility, much improved response times, slightly better image quality in good light/static subject & much better low-light/fast moving objects..
It's also worth knowing though that the DSLR involves a learning curve, even though I learnt much from the Prosumer !!.
Simon.
Http://www.landscapephotographyuk.com/.
North Wales photographs - Snowdonia & Anglesey..
1. Consider buying one of the capable bridge cam like Canon S3IS (6MP, 12x zoom, full manual modes, swivel LCD). That will cost you less than $350 and encourage you to experiment..
2. When it starts to become a limitation, only then go for a DSLR, whose prices are going to come down further. (DSLR with lenses covering such zoom range will cost you in excess of $1200 as of now.)..
3. S3IS would still be useful as carry-everywhere cam (or atleast for movie clips)..
Birdermom wrote:.
I have been reading...and reading...lots of information on here butstill can't decide, nothing that helps directly with my question interms of what I want to photograph. I am interested in takingpictures of nature...birds, flowers, insects, etc. I realize thatthere is a big difference in taking pictures of a small insect and aflying or distant bird...therefore comes the question....based onyour experience are there any p&s that can do both or will I need theDSLR ability of changing lens to do this successfully...anysuggestions on cameras for nature photography, p&s or DSLR....verylimited experience...used Canon AE-1 years ago.
Keep smiling, Ajayhttp://picasaweb.google.com/ajay0612(Thanks for your precious time & invaluable comments)..
I checked out the Canon S3 today....will do more research...any other P&S recommended...I have begun considering the P&S for the budget and due to the length it has been since I did any serious photography....leaning toward starting here...practice....learning again...like several wrote before..lots of money for a good DSLR system...thanks so much to all..
IF you are shooting in decent light, a lens like the Tamron 70-300di would be good. It is sharp with good rendering characteristics. It does give greater than normal purple fringing. Not bad for a $150 lens. Couple that with a K100D body and it may do the trick..
The kit lens does decent closeups. A couple years ago, I came upon a Rokunar 90 macro. I saw some photos in the Nikon forum that were shot with the Elicar badged version. I saw that the lens rocked and picked up the mint Rokunar from keh.com for $120. It is a precision tool and has the same optics as the legendary Tokina 90/2.5. What is nice, is that the MF is much more precise to use and it will meter on a Pentax body. ..
Here I go again....back to DSLR....Pentax K100D continues to come up in the forum...sounds like I need to look at this before my final decision...the more I read about bird photography..suggests DSLR..
Being an ex-prosumer owner myself & recently having purchased a DSLR I would say, particuarly for your requirements, that even if you buy a prosumer now it's inevitable that you'll go DSLR eventually due to the speed/response & flexibility limitations of the Prosumers..
Having gone through the process I honestly believe you are better not spending money on a prosumer which within a few months you will want to replace - in this case the DSLR really is the better "tool" for your requirements..
Simon.
Birdermom wrote:.
Here I go again....back to DSLR....Pentax K100D continues to come upin the forum...sounds like I need to look at this before my finaldecision...the more I read about bird photography..suggests DSLR.
Http://www.landscapephotographyuk.com/.
North Wales photographs - Snowdonia & Anglesey..
Birdermom wrote:.
Here I go again....back to DSLR....Pentax K100D continues to come upin the forum...sounds like I need to look at this before my finaldecision...the more I read about bird photography..suggests DSLR>>.
I think it's the ONLY way for satisfying bird photography. You'll need 500mm and probably a teleconverter. Whilst the in-built image stabilisation will help, you'll still need a tripod. I'd agree too that if you get one of those 18x zoom bridge cameras you'll all too quickly want to upgrade to the better IQ of a DSLR..
Of course if you live near a big city you may be able to hire an expensive birding lens....
John.Please visit me at:http://www.pbase.com/johnfr/backtothebridgehttp://www.pbase.com/johnfr..
I moved from a Canon S2 IS to a Panasonic FZ50 and it was quite a big step up in Image Quality. The Panasonic has a Leica (superb) Lens as well as a whole host of other features. Not that the S2 was bad at all. Certainly much cheaper than a DSLR with lenses and very good quality. Check out this ladies Flckr site to see what can be done with the Panasonic. http://www.flickr.com/photos/trashd/.
Panasonic DMC FZ50, Raynox DCR 250 and Canon 400D with18-55, 70-300IS & Sigma 18-200 OS & 50-500(Bigma). See photo's at http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexbondsmith/..
Hi There,.
I have been shooting film, 6x7 and 35mm for many years,.
A couple of years ago I decided to try out the digital thing and bought a 5mp P&S,.
It was a great learning curve which led me into not only digital but as with everybody else, all the other storage options and post processing which was all new to me, well, not entirely true, I used to scan slides,.
After about 12mths I found the P&S very limiting, I could not achieve the same performance or flexibility as my film cameras with a choice of lenses etc.
I think if someone just wants a camera to shoot the kids or grand kids and perhaps use the camera for a record of places during vacation, then print 6x4 by taking the card to a processing machine, then a P&S will do it,.
Good P&S cameras do a very great job with good light conditions, and yes, you can achieve those "wow" shots.
If you are taking up photography as a hobby, I would go the DSLR for sure!.
I regret starting out with a P&S!.
Regards,Gary..
I started with a P&S and have now moved to a DSLR. However I have come to think the P&S's are just different tools which have a valid place in your photographic toolkit. They have different capabilities and while a DSLR is a superior tool, it is also generally heavier, more expensive and requires more skill. My E900 and S5200 ( P&S's with full manual and RAW ) are decent performers and fill the gap the DSLR cannot. They weight less than a single lens for the K100D..
Image Quality = DSLR.
Convenience = P&S.
StephenG.
Pentax K100DFuji S5200Fuji E900PCLinuxOS..
Birdermom wrote:.
I have been reading...and reading...lots of information on here butstill can't decide, nothing that helps directly with my question interms of what I want to photograph. I am interested in takingpictures of nature...birds, flowers, insects, etc. I realize thatthere is a big difference in taking pictures of a small insect and aflying or distant bird...therefore comes the question....based onyour experience are there any p&s that can do both or will I need theDSLR ability of changing lens to do this successfully...anysuggestions on cameras for nature photography, p&s or DSLR....verylimited experience...used Canon AE-1 years ago.
Hi! I'd suggest you try to remember how you used that AE-1 and that might help you make your decision. The Canon AE-1 offered point, focus, and shoot convenience much like a point and shoot today, plus it had manual controls and system accessories for more experienced photographers. How did you use that camera then and how did you feel about it?.
I do know a few people who have bought a DSLR, only one lens, and never learned how to use the camera on anything except automatic. That's not much different than any point and shoot..
Technically, DSLRs and SLRs offer the possibility more versitility and better performance. Unfortunately small improvements in performance (as in most fields) come with expotential increases in price. And the camera is only a very small part of the equation. Lighting , composition and being in the right place at the right time are far more important..
Many serious birders use spotting scopes and tele flash as well as a DSLR. If you are serious enough to consider spending that kind of money, then I agree that a point and shoot probably won't do it for you. But I would suggest you have a look at what some people on-site here are doing with point and shoot cameras (many have manual controls and flash hot-shoes) before writing them off. A point and shoot with a 15x optical zoom can be pretty amazing!..
Ajay0612 wrote:.
1. Consider buying one of the capable bridge cam like Canon S3IS(6MP, 12x zoom, full manual modes, swivel LCD). That will cost youless than $350 and encourage you to experiment.2. When it starts to become a limitation, only then go for a DSLR,whose prices are going to come down further. (DSLR with lensescovering such zoom range will cost you in excess of $1200 as of now.).3. S3IS would still be useful as carry-everywhere cam (or atleast formovie clips)..
I would also advise buying one of the bridge cameras like the Sony H5, or Canon S3IS, or the Fuji..
Learn on this, because if you don't take the time to really learn a DSLR you will get discouraged because your pictures won't be what you expect them to be for the money you have spent. When you get to the point you are comfortable with manual controls, and feel you need more, move up..
Personally, though as a photographer, I am ready for a DSLR, the cost and thought of lugging all the stuff around keeps me in a bridge camera just for the convenience factor.LG..
Won't do anything well. The same hold true for just about anything, if you stop and think about it..
Not saying that P&S cameras can't make some stunning images. But there's a reason people who are serious aboout their photography generally wind up in the DSLR camp..
My first decent camera (and first digital) was the Fuji S602z. Arguably one of the best all-in-one cameras at the time. I literally wore it out. But by the time it was reaching the end of it's lifespan I was starting to feel limited by it..
In my opinion, to meet all the needs you've listed, a DSLR with a careful selection of lenses would give the best results. (Although it will be more expensive.) Once you've become comfortable with them, of course. A single lens with a huge zoom range simply cannot compare to a lens with a shorter range that's appropriate to the task at hand. Even though many people rave about the 18-200m lenses that are coming out, physics doesn't allow them to be as good as a prime or short zoom. More glass in the optical pathway WILL degrade image quality. Period.
Less glass..
So the question become, how serious do you want to get? Being a bit anal about image quality, I have ended up with some pretty expensive lenses. But to me, they are worth it..
Your milage may vary..
By the way, just so I don't sound like a total DSLR snob, I did just buy a Fuji E900 strictly for the purpose of putting it in an underwater housing for a snorkeling trip. The right tool for the job. It will be much smaller and lighter than putting my D70 in a housing. (And a LOT cheaper.) Plus my wife can carry it at other times since she finds the D70 too bulky and complicated..
Chefziggyhttp://www.pbase.com/chefziggy/lecream.
Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window..
Fly1 said:.
After about 12mths I found the P&S very limiting, I could not achieve the same performance or flexibility as my film cameras with a choice of lenses etc.
Gary, just out of curiosity, what P&S camera? It might help us to figure out why you found it limiting..
I just hate to see someone spend more money than necessary, for a camera they really don't need. The best bridge cameras take some pretty terrific pictures, with very good image quality and the added convenience of not having to lug around all sorts of stuff..
Birdermom, here's a woman after your own heart. Scroll down to her FZ50 critique and note what she has to say about extending the long end of the fixed zoom:.
Http://www.amazon.com/...90081-7278369?ie=UTF8&sort%5Fby=MostRecentReview.
MikeFZ50, Ricoh XR-2 SLR..
Thanks for the link to the review...she sounds like she is doing what I want to with the Fz50....here I go again....I am continuing to research..
I know I am asking too much out of it compared to my Nikon 35mm and RB67,.
But I am now going to buy a D80,.
As you would be aware, start up times, continuous shooting speed, iso limitations etc are frustrating, sure, there are better P&S cameras out there now but for a negligible increase in price a DSLR, is now a better option,.
For example, they are just about giving away the D40 now, why would you bother with a P&S when a D40 could be used the same and have better performance,.
Regards,Gary..
Shutter lag should not be confused with AF/metering time. Most P&S cameras have shorther shutter lag times compared to DSLRs due to the time required to move the mirror..
Also, a live view LCD is not such a bad thing (if it's a good one) compared to an optical viewfinder because it gives you instant feedback of highlight/shadow exposure..
Cheers..
The issue I find between composing in the LCD on P&S' and an optical viewfinder on a SLR is twofold..
1) With the LCD you hold the camera away from your body and the camera is less steady. Especially so with the lens zoomed long..
2) In bright light sometimes the lcd is unusable, even if it has a good anti-glare coating and twist swivel capability..
I might be old fashioned but a good optical through the lens viewfinder beats an lcd..
Usability and pleasure are large factors in my opinion...
I was actually talking about the EVF on some of the better prosumer cameras. Oh, and you also have a histogram within the viewfinder as well..
I like an optical viewfinder as well but I find the EVF handy for getting the right balance. Now, if some manufacturer could just combine the two within the viewfinder........
Cheers..
Thanks, Gary. That gives us a better idea. Enjoy your D80..
You also said:.
They are just about giving away the D40 now, why wouldyou bother with a P&S when a D40 could be used the same and havebetter performance.
I looked at the D40 and as you did with your S60, found it lacking (because of all the missing features and lens limitations). Also, no IS, which was major. I figured to buy a dSLR that would give me everything available on the FZ50, it would at least double our outlay. In our case, it just didn't make sense. When you look at Trevor Carpenter's FZ50 pics at the links I supplied above in this thread, the Pany is a camera I can live with for a long time...
...just felt if the Canon S3/S5 was under consideration (no reason it shouldn't), the FZ50 should be on the table, too. ..
This is how I see it!.
If someone has a budget for a good P&S but not able to justify the the extra dollars on a D80 or D200, at the current sale price of the D40, I think this SLR would be a better option,.
I do realize that there lens restrictions with the D40 but they will still get a lot more "bang" for their dollar for about the same price,.
Regards,Gary..
If someone has a budget for a good P&S but not able to justify thethe extra dollars on a D80 or D200, at the current sale price of theD40, I think this SLR would be a better option,I do realize that there lens restrictions with the D40 but they willstill get a lot more "bang" for their dollar for about the same price.
Gary, as a dSLR, the D40 makes a good point and shoot, a nifty move on Nikon's part. Target the consumer who doesn't want to get involved in a decision-making process, strip off some of the quick "go-to" buttons, narrow the customizing options, all at an attractive price. Fine for some, for others, ah...not so hot. That's why you're not interested in that particular camera and I'll second that emotion.From a personal perspective, D40 vs. FZ50, the Panasonic wins hands down...
Hi,.
I've bought myself a Panasonic FZ8 and love it. I looked at the FZ50 but for me it was too bulky for the primary purpose (travel). Don't know what I'm doing with it (FZ8) yet but am having fun learning. It has enough manual functions to keep me busy plus P&S mode. I put it in a Zing neoprene cover, stuffed it in my handbag and went off to Europe with it last month for a few weeks and am pleased with my (beginner's) results. I as particularly pleased with the macro shots (bugs and flowers) so the next step for me is to get the Raynox 150 and 250 lenses...
Do you know where there is a list of adapters, add-ons, etc. that are available for the FZ7 or FZ8?..
Having owned the KM A200 prosumer I always found adapters (tele-convertors etc) very cumbersome to use & always noticed a decline in image quality..
I also think it detracts from buying a prosumer in the first place as it removes one the the advantages they have over a DSLR - the "all-in-one" solutions. If you are thinking already of adding teleconvertors etc to a prosumer I think you may again be better off considering the DSLR option, after all DSLRs are designed specifically to easily use different "add-ons" - much moreso than prosumers.
Simon.
Http://www.landscapephotographyuk.com/.
North Wales photographs - Snowdonia & Anglesey..
I see what you are saying....just during "research" saw some great pritures expanding the use of P&S, thought I would ask...
It might not be a bad idea to let *your* eyes be your guide, birdermom. I get the feeling you may be thinking ahead, thus your question re the list of adaptors, add-ons, etc..
If you are considering the FZ7 or FZ8, you will find the answers for your particular needs in the Panasonic Talk forum right here at dpreview. Punch it up, ask your question(s) and you'll get all sorts of help and advice...
Will do....going looking today...will "hold" all models on my list, narrow it down...the camera must feel comfortable in my hands or I know I won't use it much.....Thanks for all the many comments and help!..