Http://www.naturescapes.net/072006/rh0706_1.htm.

Http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/hdr.shtml.

Good Day,Roonal.

'Money doesn't buy happiness, but it makes for an extravagant depression' by golf tournament sportscaster..

Http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/blended_exposures.shtml.

I look on the digital blending of images as a form of HDR - now whether or not that is technically correct(???).

I've seen some discussions here on whether the term High Dynamic Range is being used properly.

Http://forums.dpreview.com/...forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=20987173.

Good Day,Roonal.

'Money doesn't buy happiness, but it makes for an extravagant depression' by golf tournament sportscaster..

You have got a comprehensive answer from Roonal..

Just thought it worth saying that it just seems to me that the camera manufacturers are missing a trick here. It shouid be possible to have an HDR mode that slows the cam down but brackets say 3 shots and uses 1 & 3 to combine in an HDR JPEG (or even RAW). Maybe you would have to press a button to confirm you want to do it based upon the histograms or maybe it could just store a 4th HDR image automatically..

Chris Elliott.

*Nikon* D Eighty + Fifty - Other equipment in Profile.

Http://PlacidoD.zenfolio.com/..

This seems to be the right place to ask a question, given the expertise of soome of the posters....

I have noticed sometimes that on sunny days I end up with black shadows and bright white highlights with no detail in either. The average exposure seems to be right. Is there anything that can be done about this, either in shooting (obviously I turned the 'contrast' down to a minimum in the camera) or in post-processing? One can decrease contrast in PS but it can't extract detail from highlights / shadows that is not there. I don't want to get into the complexities of blending different shots with different exposures to create HDR images... just to take slightly better pictures in harsh lighting conditions. It may be that the real world has a higher dynamic range than current sensors can cope with and it's an insoluble problem....

Many thanks in advance for any helpMike..

You ask a mouthful, as they say. I'll just touch a few things here, because it's a rather complex area..

Basically one reason people like me rant about the wonders of RAW files is that you can often recover shadow and bright areas. This is because JPEGs contain only 256 evenly spread levels of each colour. RAW files contain from 1024 to 4096 depending on the camera..

You need to use a histogram, if your camera has one, to check you do not over-expose. Over-exposure and too much under-exposure will make recovery of detail very difficult or impossible..

If you cannot shoot RAW then try and auto-bracket +-1 EV. Bare in mind this equates to shooting three separate shots, so you need to fix the camera in place to do it ( tripod or leave it lying on something with the timer set )..

RAW is absolutely the best way. With a proper image processor you can enhance the shadows and bright areas using careful manipulation of the tone curve. There is no general rule to apply here - it needs practice. You don't do it for all images because it takes too long. With practice you can do this relatively quickly with reasonable results. Note that it's quite difficult to produce a realistic looking image to start with, because you can easily 'squash' the mid-tones into too small a level range..

A few DSLRs actually do support this as an automated feature. It's becoming more common. I think the first consumer level one was the Sony Alpha. I think the best HDR cameras are the Fuji S3 and S5, both quite expensive professional DSLRs. These capture high- and low- light information using special secondary sensors. However they are not justified for normal people..

If you want to experiment with HDR you should get a camera that support RAW and image software that supports 16-bit images internally..

StephenG.

Fuji S9600Fuji S5200Fuji F30Fuji E900Canon A710ISPCLinuxOS..

Mike703 wrote:.

....... It may be that the realworld has a higher dynamic range than current sensors can cope withand it's an insoluble problem....

I am afraid that is so at the moment. The eye can cope with over 12 stops of light and can adjust to a wider range. Most DSLRS can do no better than 7-8 stops and best out at 9 using RAW. (You can get a bit more but often the colour information just is not there)..

It is ironic that sunny daylight should pose such problems..

There is no simple solution. The best advice is to realise the limitation and then:a) bracket and choose the best orb) shoot RAW..

A polarising filter can sometimes help. In particular it can preserve the sky that might otherwise be blown out as well as reduce reflections from windows and other shiny surfaces and thus reduce the DR..

Another good reason for shooting RAW is that algorithms are for ever improving. I have reprocessed a number of shots from a few year ago with good results..

Chris Elliott.

*Nikon* D Eighty + Fifty - Other equipment in Profile.

Http://PlacidoD.zenfolio.com/..

Many thanks Chris and Steven for your helpful comments..

I have a Pentax K100D which came with some RAW processing software so I'll have to take the plunge and investigate. JPEGs are fine for me most of the time but it would be nice to develop the skill to make the best possible job of more important shots.Thanks againMike..

Chris Elliott wrote:.

There is no simple solution. The best advice is to realise thelimitation and then:a) bracket and choose the best orb) shoot RAW..

Does this mean that there's no such thing as bracketing with multiple RAW files?.

I've been trying to figure out for a while how blending multiple RAW files could produce a JPG file with more contrast than the individual RAW files if a RAW can contain more than a JPG can anyway, but if bracketing simply means blending mulitple JPGs instead of multiple RAWs, then that solves my mystery...

Mike703 wrote:.

I have noticed sometimes that on sunny days I end up with blackshadows and bright white highlights with no detail in either. Theaverage exposure seems to be right. Is there anything that can bedone about this, either in shooting....

I don't want to get intothe complexities of blending different shots with differentexposures to create HDR images... just to take slightly betterpictures in harsh lighting conditions.

To add to what others have to already mentioned:.

Take as much "control" of the scene as you can - move your subject into shade, change your or subject's orientation to the sun, use fill-flash, a reflector, etc, etc.

But sometimes just have to expose your intended subject as best you can and let the rest fall where it may. Sometimes just have to let the highlights blowout and/or the shadows go dark..

In shots taken indoors I tend to dislike blownout windows, but I wasn't going to expose for the window and use flash on the horse:.

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My options (given my fly by the seat of my pants approach to things - God forbid I should actually plan ahead) were to adjust position:.

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BTW here's what I was actually most interested at the time in trying to capturing (crop from above image) - the reflection of the interior of the arena:.

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It may be that the real world has a higher dynamic range thancurrent sensors can cope with and it's an insoluble problem....

Yes..

Unfortunately I'm too lazy to go into the menu of my 400D to select auto bracket. I usually just take one RAW image then mess with it later in post-processing - "developing" different conversions for different parts of the scenes and then combining them..

One conversion each for the hood emblem/ornament, the hood, and the grill then combined:.

Image control:Zoom outZoom 100%Zoom inExpand AllOpen in new window.

Good Day,Roonal.

'Money doesn't buy happiness, but it makes for an extravagant depression' by golf tournament sportscaster..

Delvo wrote:.

Does this mean that there's no such thing as bracketing withmultiple RAW files?.

No - can still bracket..

I've been trying to figure out for a while how blending multipleRAW files could produce a JPG file with more contrast than theindividual RAW files if a RAW can contain more than a JPG cananyway, but if bracketing simply means blending mulitple JPGsinstead of multiple RAWs, then that solves my mystery..

No - the OP doesn't want to do digital blending..

Three bracketed JPGs would I think be better to combine than having only one RAW image, but I've never compared or tested this assumption and am no expert..

Good Day,Roonal.

'Money doesn't buy happiness, but it makes for an extravagant depression' by golf tournament sportscaster..

Three bracketed JPGs would I think be better to combine than having only one RAWimage, but I've never compared or tested this assumption and am no expert..

I would not agree with this simply because a bracket shot is going to take three exposures separated in time. This means moving objects will be in different positions..

For a static target in studio/static lighting that might be fine, but for an outdoor target or in variable lighting that will be a problem. Remember, even if there are no moving objects in frame when you compose a shot, a cloud or bird or person might move into the scene..

As has been pointed out you can bracket RAW as well, so you loose no freedom..

I always recommend shooting only in RAW. It's nowhere near as big a problem as people seem to think..

StephenG.

Fuji S9600Fuji S5200Fuji F30Fuji E900Canon A710ISPCLinuxOS..

I wrote the following some time ago, I hope it is helpfull..

To do hdr-.

If you put camera into full auto matrix metering, take first shot note fstop and shutter speed. put cmaera into full manual, see if camera still has the matrix fstop and shutter speed. if yes, then using shutter speed go up 2-4 shutter speeds 1 fstop worth of shutter speed at a time. the back to matrix shutter speed and go down same number of shutter speeds..

-this is on a tripod with cable release..

-no, you should not use 1 raw shot and convert 1 stop up and down, because their is not enough dynamic range in the 1 raw shot. dynamic range is why we are doing this, hdr is trying to get all it can..

The group of shots can be raw or jpeg. if jpeg they can be used as is. if raw remember that you HAVE to batch process all 5-9 shots. this is because the pp has to be all the same on every pic. you cannot, for example make any attempt to get the shadow details of the group of raw pics, because that would require different amounts of pp, and you cannot do that with hdr. the pp for all shots has to be identical..

For me I just shoot them in jpeg and use them from the camera, that way they are all identical because the camera jpeg settings are the same for every shot. I also put my hand streched in front of the lens and take a check shot and when done take a ending shot with hand. this tells me where the hdr group is on my memory card when I transfer to the pc..

The only important item is to bracket using shutter speeds only. if fstops are used it changes dof between shots. and shoot enough shots, 5-9 is the optimum. the only other thought is to shoot a scene that deserves the the hdr technique, too many people are shooting hdr because it is new or different or whatever. the scene for hdr should have a very wide dynamic range. this can be checked with a spotmeter on different areas..

And the scene should have no movement, if so the item will blur in the hdr image..

Do not adjust the focus. set the focus on infinity or use a hyperfocal setup for focus..

Do not adjust the white balance for individual shots. go with awb or 1 setting and do not change it..

Hdr effect vs hdr image. the difference is that the shooter simply shot a scene and processed it useing hdr software. the scene could just as well be done with one image and adjusted useing any applicable pp..

And hdr image is one that has a great dynamic range and the pic cannot be shot using normal one pic methods with any pp. the shot at the light or dark ends or both will blow the histogram...

Roonal wrote:.

Three bracketed JPGs would I think be better to combine than havingonly one RAW image ....

Sjgcit wrote:I would not agree with this simply because a bracket shot is goingto take three exposures separated in time. This means movingobjects will be in different positions..

Correct - I should have qualified my statement. I was looking at it strictly from the standpoint of just the resultant "exposures" themselves - three widely bracketed JPGs versus one RAW image that was initially exposed for the middle part of a contrasty scene..

Remember, even if there are no moving objects in framewhen you compose a shot, a cloud or bird or person might move intothe scene..

True so wouldn't necessarily do it at a theme park crowded with tourists for example,.

But I am also of the opinion - until I prove myself wrong or someone else does  - that the scene doesn't always have to be completely 100% static in order to successfully bracket & combine the resulting images..

In some situations minor mis-alignments from for example, hand-held camera movement can be corrected for (to a degree) later in post-processing..

Or for example as you mention, if a bird were to enter the frame flying across the background sky, I figure I'll just keep one of him and erase (mask out) the other two (if he shows up in all three frames)..

One caveat: Now that's as long as there's no overlap with the captured movement. If the subject (say a person) were to lean slightly to one side or the other, then because of the overlap between frames I wouldn't have the post-processing skill (nor patience required) to correct for that..

As I alluded to in a previous post I don't auto-bracket cause I don't want to have to repeatedly go into the menu to select/un-select auto-bracketing and nor do I want to leave it selected and end up with three times the images..

And with my pay photography work (versus my casual stuff), 99% of the time auto-bracketing just would not be a viable option..

As a general rule I select RAW over JPG for the freedom to make various adjustments and to get the widest dynamic range per image..

Good Day,Roonal.

'Money doesn't buy happiness, but it makes for an extravagant depression' by golf tournament sportscaster..

Thanks to all who responded. I'm starting out with my DSLR (from an OLY OM1) so this whole concept of "photoshopping" is still new to me. I'm really enjoying reading the forums here and the links you have provided are great as well. Thanks again...